Recollections  -  South Edinburgh

Gilmerton

Maureen Mitchell
Gilmerton, Edinburgh

-  By tram in 1950s

Lilian Young
USA

-  Children's Home

Ann Valentine

with replies from

Archie Young
Moredun, Edinburgh

and

Peter Stubbs

-  School in 1950s

-  Convalescent Home

-  Dr Guthrie's Home

Forbes Wilson
near Guildford, Surrey, England

-  Hyvots Bank

-  143rd Scouts

-  Fish & Chips

Jimmy White
Loanhead, Midlothian

-  School

-  Play

-  Homes

-  Happy Days

Jackie Coupe

-  Dr Guthrie's School

Jimmy White
Loanhead, Midlothian

-  Village

-  Gilmerton Homing Club

-  Gilmerton Halls

-  Supporting Charities

-  Pigeons Today

7B.

7C.

Jimmy White
Loanhead, Midlothian

with reply from

Forbes Wilson
near Guildford, Surrey, England

and answers from

Jimmy White

-  Prefab Housing

-  New Street

-  Burdiehouse Burn

-  Anderson Shelter

-  Prefab Housing

-  Shops

-  Chips and Pickle

-  Two questions

-  Prefab Housing

-  Quarries

More of Forbes Wilson's recollections of Gilmerton,  together with a reply from Jacqui Anderson, Camberley, Surrey can be found on this page:

©

Gilmerton Main Street

Tom Nimmo
Canada

with replies from

Bob Henderson
Burdiehouse, Edinburgh

Scotty Henderson
Canada

Jimmy White
Loanhead, Midlothian

Peter Stubbs
Edinburgh

and again

Jimmy White
Loanhead, Midlothian

and

Ann Valentine
East Lothian, Scotland

-  Sanitarium

-  Children's Home

-  Industrial School

-  Dr Guthrie's School

-  Boys' Home

-  Name of the Big House

-  Houses in New Street

George Field
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

-  Gilmerton Road

-  Travelling Shops

-  School and Scouts

-  Employment

More of George Field's recollections of Gilmerton can be found here:

©

Beveridge  -  Grocer at Gilmerton, 1950s-60s

Sheena Wheeler
Australia

with replies from

Peter Stubbs
Edinburgh

Jenny Parkerson
Edinburgh

Archie Young
Moredun, Edinburgh

and

Edward McMillan
Moredun, Edinburgh

-  Police Station

Archie Young
Moredun, Edinburgh

-  16th Century

-  Robin's Nest Inn

Here are some comments from John Hadden and Archie Young on the area near Gilmerton Crossroads

©

Saloon near Gilmerton Crossroads

Archie Young
Moredun, Edinburgh

-  Gilmerton Coal Pit

Archie Young
Moredun, Edinburgh

-  Police House and Police Station

Andrew Muir
Gilmerton, Edinburgh

-  The Pin Society

Archie Young
Moredun, Edinburgh

-  The Pin Society

Archie Young
Moredun, Edinburgh

-  Procession

-  Clydesdale Cart Horse

-  Pins

-  Carter Play Days

James W Turner
Israel

-  Gilmerton Convalescent Home

Brian Cameron
Dalkeith, Midlothian, Scotland

-  Police Station

-  Post Office

-  Shops

Ron Ross
Brampton, Ontario, Canada

-  Home

-  Exploring

-  Shops

-  Society Hall

-  Co-op

Ron Ross
Brampton, Ontario, Canada

-  Quarries and Cave

Roddy Young
Ellon, Aberdeenshire, Scotland

-  John Young, Hazeldean

Norma Coutts
Gilmerton, Edinburgh

- Gilmerton Police Station

Brian Cameron
Dalkeith, Midlothian, Scotland

-  Baker and Bank

-  Prefab  Houses

-  Glenesk Laundry

-  School

-  Friends

-  Sunday Schools

-  Petrol Stations

Brian Cameron
Dalkeith, Midlothian, Scotland

-  Houses hit by Subsidence

-  Subsidence

-  Mining

-  Ferniehill Drive

-  Damage

-  The Roads

-  Evacuation

-  Earlier Incidents

-  Survey

Liz Smith (nee Mackay)
Glenrothes, Fife

-  Liz Mackay

-  Chrissie Wallace

Megan Williams

with reply from

Helen Kerr (nee Strang)

-  Bakery

Ann Valentine
East Lothian, Scotland

-  Hyvot's Bank Avenue

-  Bakers

Ann Valentine
East Lothian, Scotland

-  Drum Street

-  Market Garden and Shops

-  Farm

-  Teacher

David Bain
Rotherham, South Yorkshire, England

-  Parochialism

John Kay
Gilmerton, Edinburgh

-  Quarterfaire Girls' Home

Forbes Wilson
near Guildford, Surrey, England

with reply from

Peter Stubbs
Edinburgh

-  1940 Map question

Recollections

1.

Maureen Mitchell

Gilmerton, Edinburgh

Thank you to Maureen Mitchell for sending this note about her parents in law, George and Anderina (Rina) Mitchell.  Maureen says they were well known in Leith then in Gilmerton.

Maureen wrote:

By tram in 1950s

In the Gilmerton area, George is recognised as one of the best, if not the best, welders of his time."

Maureen Mitchell, Gilmerton, Edinburgh:  January 20, 2007

Recollections

2.

Lilian Young

USA

Lilian Young, who left Edinburgh for the USA in 1966, sent me some sad recollections of of time she spent at Gilmerton during World War 2.

Question

Lilian wrote:

Children's Home

"I have a questions for you.   I have attempted to secure the answer from the Sick Children's Hospital, but they have been unable to assist me. 

During the war, my Grandmother took me to the hospital (why,  I don't know) but from there I was taken to a children's home in Gilmerton where I was left for approximately 2 months until my Uncle came home on leave from the war and found me there.  He brought me home to my Mother.

I only know that it was a large building, with both boys and girls of various ages.   Some children went to school, but others, including myself, were kept in the house.  It was off of the main road, but the school was on the corner. 

I don't recall nurses being there, but there was a blonde lady who sent me to purchase cigarettes for her and I had to cross a busy main street.

Would you by any chance have any knowledge of this home?"

Lilian Young:  January 16, 2007

Answer

New Street, Gilmerton

I've had a look at some old maps of Gilmerton, and I've been to Gilmerton and taken a few photos.

Gilmerton Primary School

  ©

There was a house, just up the road from the crossroads beside the Gilmerton Primary School that used to be a children's convalescent home.

Perhaps this might have been where you stayed for the two months.  The street used to be called New Street and is now called Newtoft Street.   The house is about 300 yards from the crossroads, on the right-hand side of the road going up the hill out of Gilmerton.

Children's Convalescent Home

Now 18-26 New Toft Street.

  ©

It is marked on the old maps as a Convalescent Home, and the old Post Office Directories say that it was a children's convalescent home.   I wonder if you had some sort of infectious disease and that might be why the hospital decided to send you to the children's convalescent home.

The old convalescent home has now been divided into a number of private homes.  Its address is 18-26 New Toft Street.

Peter Stubbs:  February 15, 2007

Reply from Lilian

Lilian wrote:

Children's Home

"Many, many thanks for solving the puzzle of the home in Gilmerton for me.  I was beginning to think that I would never solve it, but you have definitely hit the nail on the head.

I definitely recall the school, because I used to walk down there to meet some of the other children and walk home with them.

I remember the cupola on top of the top of the house where I stayed.   I like cupolas and widow watches on top of houses to this day."

Lilian Young:  February 16, 2007

Name and Age

"My wonderful Mother had been widowed when I was 11 months old, when my father died as the result of an accident.  My Mom, my brother and I went to stay with my Grandmother who enrolled me in school with an incorrect date of birth which wasn't discovered until I was 12 years old.   

My actual name was Lilian May Howden Raeburn, but my Mom shortened this to Lilma and in fact I didn't even know my name was Lilian until I went to school.   At some point, my grandmother registered me under Lilma and used her name, Howden as my last name, so many of my school and medical records were really messed up"

Lilian Young:  February 16, 2007

Any Other Recollections?

If you have any other recollections Gilmerton, particularly of the Children's Convalescent Home, please e-mail me and I'll pass on your message to Lilian.

Thank you.    - Peter Stubbs:  March 3, 2007

Thank you to Archie Young who replied:

"The original Convalescent Home was in New Street, now Ravenscroft Street, Gilmerton.  It was built in 1879.  I have still to find this building.

However, the duration at this site was short.  It moved to Newtoft Street in 1886, costing £2000.00.  It had room for 38 residents.  It seems that this home was for children.

When I come across the original home, I'll take a photo of it and send it in."

Archie Young, Moredun, Edinburgh:  April 8, 2008

Update

Here is a postcard, posted in the 1920s.  It shows the original convalescent homes in New Street, now Newtoft Street.

    ©

Here is a photograph of the same building taken in 2007

    ©

Peter Stubbs:  April 20, 2008

Recollections

3.

Ann Valentine

Thank you to Ann Valentine for sending me her recollections below.

Ann wrote:

Ann Valentine:  March 10, 2007

Recollections

4.

Forbes Wilson

near Guildford, Surrey, England

Thank you to Forbes Wilson for his recollections below recollections below.

Forbes wrote:

Recollections

5A.

Jimmy White

Loanhead, Midlothian

Jimmy White wrote:

School

"Reading through the Gilmerton recollections (above) brought back the happiest days of my life.  I went to:

- Ravenscroft School, annex of Gilmerton Primary School, in the early '50s.  It was situated next door to the 'Convalescence School' and had about 7 classrooms.

-  Green Halls School, the other annexe.  It's now the church hall."

I remember Bunny Mason, one of the most famous teachers at Gilmerton Primary School."

Play

"My parents moved to the newly built prefabs at Hyvots in the late '40s.  I have happy memories of:

 - playing in the 'quarry' between the prefabs and Gilmerton Dykes houses that were built later.

-  running from the prefabs  through the long grass, now Gilmerton Dykes houses, with only grey flannel shorts and braces, nothing else

-   building a dam, and swimming in the burn

-  later, Wullie Blair's hall, opposite the church, for the boxing club -  tuppence that cost.

-  threepence for a great big bag of chips out of Wullie Blair's chip shop, after boxing lessons

-  penny ice lollies -  that's if you could manage to get a tanner (a sixpenny piece)"

Homes

"The 'bad boys home ' used to be  the Convalencent Home and the 'bad girls home' was on the Gilmerton Road, now the faith centre.

I often wondered what became of Annie from the 'bad girls home'   I knew her well.  I used to help her to walk the home's boxer dog, Rufus'.  Is she still living and can she remember me?

Happy Days

"Yes, when you think back, you could write a book on those days  - all the characters etc etc.  Happy happy days indeed, and stranger still, all the summers seemed sunny and all the folks freindly -  great days!"

Jimmy White, Loanhead, Midlothian:  August 31, 2007

Annie?

If anybody knows what became of Annie from the 'bad girls home' please e-mail me and I'll pass on the news to Jimmy.

Thank you:    - Peter Stubbs, August 31, 2007.

Recollections

5B.

Jackie Coupe

I've not yet heard any news of Annie (above) but I have just received this message from Jackie Coupe.

Jackie wrote:

Dr Guthrie's School

"I've just read Lilma's note about Gilmerton (2 above: Answer). The place she was talking about was Dr Guthrie's girls school.  I have a lot of stuff about the place as i was a bad girl and got put there for not going to school.

The girls' school was in Gilmerton and the boys school was Liberton.  I was there for a year from May 1972.

I have a lot of good memories of the school and the girls.  Why is there no web site for Dr Guthrie's?  He was a famous man in Edinburgh he did a lot for the children on the streets of Edinburgh.

I was always going to go back to see the place, but my family was upside down and never got around to doing it .  My dream,  if won the lottery, was to open up the school for the kids again, but not to be run like a army camp."

Jackie Coupe:  December 6, 2007

Recollections

6.

Jimmy White

Loanhead, Midlothian

Jimmy White wrote again in September 2007 with more recollections of Gilmerton.

Jimmy wrote:

Village

"I would like to explain how old Gilmerton was really a small mining village, with most of the population miners of coalmen.  e.g. the Inneses and the Erskines."

Gilmerton Homing Club

"Most of these families, like myself were pigeon fanciers.  This was the ultimate hobby in Gilmerton at this time.  In 1956, when the Gilmerton Homing Club was founded, it had 42 members, winning races from 60 miles to 600 miles.

1954 Presentation of Prizes

    ©

Sadly, this hobby has drastically dropped.  The club now, in 2007, has only about a dozen members.

Gilmerton was noted in the racing pigeon circles as "the place where the best fliers came from.  Through the years, 5 Gilmerton members individually won the 'Grand National of Pigeon Racing - against the whole of Scotland, from France, flying to their small back garden lofts.

My father and I were, in fact, founder members and helped to start the club."

Gilmerton Halls

"The photograph above was taken at the very first presentation of the Gilmerton Homing Club, held in the "Society Hall" in 1956.  This hall was built in the 1870s and at that time was called the 'Pin Hall'. 

The 'Society Hall' is opposite the Community Centre, which used to be Gilmerton Primary School.

The 'Society Hall' was used as the school Dinner Hall, and also as the Sunday School hall, which i attended, run by a Mr and Mrs Kerr.  It acted as the Gospel Mission Hall for the  services of a Sunday evening."

Supporting Charities

"The Gilmerton Homing Club has aided many charities. 

Myself and a few others organised a sale and night-out in aid of the Anthony Nolan Bone Marrow Trust and realised nearly £4,000, after my sister sadly passed away at the age of 44.  It was all I could do to help!

David, Jimmy and Irene

   ©

With the old Gilmerton being a big name in the pigeon world, many came and donated from all over the UK, in the hope of buying a champion pigeon.

Pigeons Today

"I, myself, have been and still am a keen pigeon fancier.  Pigeon  racing became the miner's lives since the early 1900s when it began.

Nowadays, pigeons are racing for thousands of pounds, and obviously very valuable, thanks to the miners of Gilmerton."

Jimmy White, Loanhead, Midlothian:  September 20 + October 1, 2007

One of Jimmy White's pigeons, 'Sir Colin', won Open SNFC Open Races in 1991, 1992 and 1993  and appeared on the cover of The British Homing World's magazine, 'Pigeon Racing Gazette'.

Recollections

7A.

Jimmy White

Loanhead, Midlothian

Thank you to Jimmy White for sending me these two photos of Gilmerton.

Jimmy wrote:

Prefab Housing

"This photo is my grandmother, mother and youngest sister, June.

   ©

  These are the prefabs houses that occupied the area in Gilmerton, now Hyvots, where the flats are now.  (Some have been knocked down due to subsidence, no wonder as they were built on a filled-in quarry.)

New Street

"Through the gap in the prefabs, you can just see the two chimneys and the tops of the houses in New Street (now Newtoft Street) opposite Wullie Blair's chip shop.  Ravenscroft school, annexe of the old Gilmerton Primary School, was next door to these houses."

Burdiehouse Burn

"The photo was taken around 1950, about the time that they built the houses at Gilmerton Dykes and the bridge over Burdiehouse Burn.  Before, then, the only bridge over the burn was the one at the Lasswade Road.  From these prefabs down to the burn was just quarry and long grass."

Anderson  Shelter

"This photo is myself and my deceased sister, Irene, with the old Anderson Shelter at the back of us, used as the 'coal house'."

   ©

"At this time, around 1950, the small village of Gilmerton started to expand.  Prefabs were built at Ferniehill, Moredun and Craigour.  Then, the council houses were built at Gilmerton Dykes ,Moredun etc."

Jimmy White, Loanhead, Midlothian:  December 10, 2007

Recollections

7B.

Forbes Wilson

near Guildford, Surrey, England

Forbes Wilson, now living near Guildford, Surrey, England replied:

Prefab Housing

"Many thanks to your reader Jimmy White for posting the photograph of the prefab housing in Gilmerton.

Shops

From 1957 until 1977 I lived at 12 Gilmerton Dykes Street, above what used to be at that time, Millers chemist shop.  There was also:

- Millar’s the butchers

- McLeod’s the grocer

- McKay’s the bakers

- Burns fruit and veg and

- Mayer’s the newsagent.

The rear of our house looked down onto Burdiehouse Burn. Across the burn, and at the top of the slope was the rear of the houses in Gilmerton Dykes Avenue. To our right was the old bridge that Jimmy refers to on Lasswade Road and to the left was the, then, new bridge taking Gilmerton Dykes Street up to Newtoft Street.

Chips and Pickle

After Thursday night scouts in Ravenscroft Street we used to get a 6d bag of chips from Wullie Blair’s and if you were feeling rich, a 1d large pickle!

Questions

Forbes Wilson has asked these two questions. 

Question 1:  Where were the prefab houses?

"I am curious to know where the picture beside the prefab houses was taken from. Judging by Jimmy’s description of the two chimney tops, they are on the top of houses in New Street (now Newtoft Street) opposite Wullie Blair’s’.

I have been looking at the 1955 map of the Gilmerton area on the EdinPhoto web site. Were the prefab houses in Moredun Dykes Road or in what appears to be Hyvots Crescent?

Question 2:  Does anybody have pre-1950s photos?

Do any of your readers have any photos from the pre-1950’s where Burdiehouse burn was bordered by the quarries and long grass?

When I was a young lad, some of the older residents of the Gilmerton area would often talk about ‘the quarries’"

Recollections

7C.

Jimmy White

Loanhead, Midlothian

Thank you to Jimmy White who wrote:

Prefab Housing

"Forbes is near enough  right about the location of the prefabs in the photo.

Coming down Moredun Dykes Road, from the old phone box, there were prefabs on both sides.

- On the right off Moredun Dykes Road  was Hyvot  Crescent, which bordered the 'swing park' in the shape of an arc.

- On the left were Hyvot Avenue leading to Hyvot Terrace, then Hyvot Gardens, then Hyvot Loan, which ran down to Inches farm then Ellen's Glen.  There were also some small streets.

Quarries

Right at the bottom of the prefabs there were quarries, then just long grass down to the burn, now Gilmerton Dykes.

The quarries were of course a haven for us young lads, even although we were told to keep away from them, as they were too dangerous -  but as boys will be boys.

I slid down one of the caves at the bottom of the quarry, and my brother and his mates took  hand in hand, (about 4 of them) and pulled me out.  Of course, to this day he says he saved my life. Maybe a slight exageration, but they were pretty dangerous.  If you threw a stone down, it was a good few seconds before you heard the splash of water at the bottom.

Photos

Like Forbes, I would  love to see any photos of these quarries.  They seem to be very rare , but I am still hunting, myself.

Through the years, I have lost a few old photos, but I may find some with my family.

Jimmy White, Loanhead, Midlothian:  December 26, 2007

Recollections

8.

Tom Nimmo

Canada

Question

Tom Nimmo, Canada, wrote:

Sanitarium

"When I was approximately ten years old, in 1950, I was sent to a sanitarium-like facility in Gilmerton. I was wondering if you have anyone who would recall the name of the institution?"

Tom Nimmo:  Canada, December 21, 2007

If you can help to answer Tom's question, please e-mail me, then I'll pass on your message to him.

Thank you.  -  Peter Stubbs.

Recollections

8.

Answer 1

Bob Henderson

Edinburgh

Bob Henderson, Burdiehouse, Edinburgh replied:

Sanitarium

"The only sanitarium I know in the Gilmerton area is the old tuberculosis hospital 'Southfield Hospital'.  The main entrance to its grounds is in Lasswade Road. It is now an up-market housing estate with an old peoples home on the site."

Children's Home

"If, however, Tom Nimmo was in a children's home, it might have been Doctor Guthrie's ,also entered from Lasswade Road and now an old people's home."

Industrial School

 "At Gilmerton, there was, of course, the Industrial School - but I have always understood that in the fifties it was a girls' establishment."

Bob Henderson, Burdiehouse, Edinburgh:  December 23, 2007.

Recollections

8.

Answer 2

Scotty Henderson

Canada

Scotty Henderson replied:

Sanitarium

"I think the Sanitarium was between Gilmerton Road and the Old Dalkeith Road, and that the entrance was on, I think, Kingston Rd.

This is from long-time memory as my sister was in there with meningitis  in 1951, plus the fact that as a telegram messenger I cycled past it many times."

Scotty Henderson, Canada:  December 25, 2007.

Recollections

8.

Answer 3

Jimmy White

Loanhead, Midlothian

Jimmy White replied:

Dr Guthrie's Schools

"There were the famous Doctor Guthrie's schools:

The girls' school was in the, now, Faith Mission, Gilmerton Rd

The boys' school was at Liberton, not far from the Liberton Inn, a very old inn which was actually a fair distance from the village of Gilmerton."

Boys' Home

"I recall a big house, still there, next to Gilmerton Primary School's   Ravenscroft Annexe which I attended.  I'm quite sure this would be the Boys' Home that  Tom is asking about.

This big house eventually became the Social Work Centre on New Street, and the school has now been converted into flats.  I cant remember the name of the big house, but would assume it would come under 'Ravenscroft something'.

The new Social Work Dept now  is in fact the old Gilmerton Primary School, on the corner of New Street and Gilmerton Road."

Name of the Big House?

"I hope this helps Tom.  Maybe it will prompt someone's mind as to the name of it.  Maybe Tom remembers how many rooms were in the place that he attended.

 I should guess there would only be approx a dozen in the 'big house' as opposed to Dr Guthrie's at Liberton, which was very much bigger and would have held over a hundred lads."

Jimmy White, Loanhead, Midlothian:  December 27, 2007

Recollections

8.

Answer 4

Peter Stubbs

Edinburgh

Houses in New Street

Here are some photos that I took in February 2007 of large houses in Newtoft Street (formerly New Street) Gilmerton.  I think these may be the buildings that Jimmy White refers to above:

Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh,  December 28, 2007

Recollections

8.

Answer 5

Jimmy White

Houses in New Street

Jimmy White replied:

"You are bang on with your photos.  In fact, if you look back to this pic of the bus terminus, you can just barely see this building in the distance.

©

Jimmy White, Loanhead, Midlothian:  December 29, 2007

Yes, Jimmy.  This view of the bus terminus looks to the east along Gilmerton Dykes Road, towards Newtoft Street at the top of the hill in the background.

The photos that I included in 'Answer 4' above are of buildings that you would on your left-hand side if you walked straight forward in this photo and over the hill into Newtoft Street.

Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh,  December 29, 2007

Recollections

8.

Answer 6

Ann Valentine

East Lothian, Scotland

The Remand Home

Ann Valentine replied:

"What is now a Social Work Office was actually known as 'The Remand Home'.  It was for boys only, and they were brought out to it in what we used to call 'The Black Maria', a police van."

©

Ann Valentine, East Lothian, Scotland:  November 8, 2009

Recollections

9.

George Field

Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

George Field wrote:

Gilmerton Road

"I was brought up in Gilmerton from age 9 to 16 and lived at 493, Gilmerton Road, right next to the number 3 Corporation bus terminus."

Travelling Shops

"I lived with my grandparents, Cecil and Daisy Beveridge. They kept a licensed grocers business in New Street for many years and also had two mobile travelling van/shops which served Gracemount, Hyvot's Bank and several other areas.

They were the first mobile 'supermarkets' in the UK and featured heavily in Ford's publicity, as they were built on Thames Trader chassis."

School and Scouts

"I attended Liberton High School and I was among the intake when it first opened it's doors. I was a Boy Scout and we met in a Hall in the Inch, near the Robin's Nest.  Church Parades were held in the Church just up the road from the Robin's Nest."

Employment

After leaving school, became a projectionist and drove buses.

George Field, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia:  February 2, 2008

Recollections

9.

Sheena Wheeler

Australia

Question 1

Sheena Wheeler wrote from Australia:

Police Station

"My Grandfather was a policeman at Gilmerton, just outside Edinburgh, in 1904 or up to 1918.

I am looking for an old photo of the Police Station at Gilmerton.  I hope someone can help me."

Sheena Wheeler, Australia:  March 29, 2008

Sheena added

"I would truly appreciate if someone could produce an address and photo of the Police Station Gilmerton circa 1916-1918. My Grandfather was in residence there as a Police Constable. That was his given address when my father enrolled into Heriot's School in 1918."

Sheena Wheeler, Australia:  Message in EdinPhoto guest book.  March 30, 2008

Answer 1

I already have a few photos of Gilmerton on the EdinPhoto web site.  I don't know whether or not any of these might include the old Police Station.  Perhaps somebody can tell me.

©

If you have any information about the old Police Station, or photos of it, please email me, then I'll pass on your message to Sheena.

Thank you.      -  Peter Stubbs:  March 29, 2008

Answer 2

In the 1930s, the Gilmerton Police Station was in Drum Street, the main street leading to the south from Gilmerton.  I'll check to see if it was there in 1918.

-  Peter Stubbs:  March 30, 2008

Answer 3

Drum Street

Thank you to Jenny Parkerson for providing a 1916 map of Gilmerton, showing the Police Station to have been on the NE side of Drum Street, about 200 yards SE of the junction of Drum Street and New Street (now Newtoft Street), just about opposite the Post Office.

There are no house numbers on this 1914 map, but Jenny also provided a 1949 map showing the houses then to be numbered 77 + 79.

This old postcard view from the early 1900s looks NW up Drum Street towards New Street.  This photo would have been taken from approximately outside the old Police Station.  The Police Station is just out of this picture on the right-hand-side.

©

Here is another view taken from a few yards further forwards.  The same shop can be seen on the left-hand side of both views.

©

-  Peter Stubbs:  April 1, 2008

Answer 4

Drum Street

I went to Gilmerton on April 3,  to see if the old Police Station was still standing.

I found that Numbers 73 and 83 Drum Street still existed, but unfortunately the houses in between including the old Police Station (Nos 77 + 79) had been demolished to make way for a road that leads into a new estate of houses. The road is named East Farm of Gilmerton.

-  Peter Stubbs:  April 5, 2008

Answer 5

Thank you to Archie Young for sending me an old photograph and an old engraving, showing the location of the old Police Station.

Please click on the thumbnail images below to enlarge them and to read more about them:

©    ©

Archie Young, Moredun, Edinburgh:  April 8, 2008

Answer 6

Edward McMillan tells me that he came across the EdinPhoto web site while trying to establish the locations of old police stations.

Edward wrote:

1840 to 1920

"Gilmerton was a county police station from about 1840 until 1920.  The Edinburgh Extension and Tramways Act 1920 came into force on 2nd November 1920 when  13 county police stations (including Gilmerton) and 22 Midlothian police officers where transferred to the City Police.

By that time Gilmerton had been made up to a two-man beat and the officers stationed there, PCs Mackenzie and Aitchison, were transferred to Edinburgh City Police.  I think only one of the officers resided in the police station while the other occupied a "police house" either adjoining or nearby."

1933

"Gilmerton continued to operate as an Edinburgh City police station until 29th May 1933 when the "police box system" was introduced and 25 city police stations (including Gilmerton) were closed.  Some stations were sold off but others continued to be occupied solely as police houses. I don't know when the police finally gave up the old station.

I don't know what Sheena Wheeler's grandfather's name was.   I can't locate a PC Wheeler, but I assume that Wheeler is her married name.  If I had his name I might be able to trace him.  In any event, if he was at Gilmerton at any time up to 2/11/1920  he would have been an officer in the county force, Midlothian Constabulary."

PC Mackenzie

"PC Mackenzie who was at Gilmerton and transferred to Edinburgh City Police transferred back to Midlothian Constabulary in 1922 and was posted to Bonnyrigg."

PC John MacKay

"Further, for your information, PC John MacKay was stationed at Liberton Police Station (24 The Kirkgate) and was transferred to Edinburgh City Police in 1920. He later served at Gilmerton Police station and continued to live in the village after the station closed.

He had joined Midlothian Constabulary on 9th February 1914, then served in the Great War with Military Service from 5/6/1915 until 20/1/1919 when he was reappointed to the police. He must have retired in the  late 1940's and in the early 1970's he was living in Melville Grange Cottages between Gilmerton and Eskbank.

His son Eoin was was born at Liberton Police Station and thereafter lived in Gilmerton. In 1947, after serving in the war, Eoin joined Edinburgh City Police. Then in 1950 he transferred to the county force (Lothians and Peebles Constabulary) in 1950. Eoin retired  from the police as a Sergeant at Dalkeith in 1972. After a period as a lighthouse keeper in the north of Scotland, Eoin finally retired and is back living out his old age in the Gilmerton area."

Police History

"I grew up in Moredun having moved  to the prefabs in Moredun Park Way in 1953, then to Moredun Park Street in 1960.
I left the area when I joined Lothians and Peebles Constabulary  in 1969.

I retired in 1999 after 30 years service and now work part time in the Police Information Centre in the High Street. I am continually interested in local police history a lot of which is being lost as it "fades" from memory."

Edward McMillan, Edinburgh:  April 13, 2008

Answer 7

Thank you to Archie Young for sending me this photograph of Claudia's Cafe, now demolished, in Drum Street.

When this photo was added to the web site, it was thought that this might have been where the Police Station once stood in Drum Street, but this turns out not to be the case.

©

Answer 8

Police House

Archie Young tells me that he has been informed by an elderly Gilmerton resident that there used to be a Police House as well as a Police Station at Gilmerton, and that both were in Drum Street.

Archie also sent me a copy of the note below, sent to him on April 13, 2008 by the researcher, Edward McMillan.  The third paragraph of Edward's note below also refers to a police house at Gilmerton.

Archie Young:  May 4, 2008

Edward McMillan wrote (to Archie Young):

"Gilmerton was a county police station from about 1840 until 1920. The Edinburgh Extension and Tramways Act 1920 came into force on 2nd November 1920 when  13 county police stations (including Gilmerton) and 22 Midlothian police officers where transferred to the City Police. 

By that time, Gilmerton had been made up to a two-man beat and the officers stationed there, PCs Mackenzie and Aitchison, were transferred to Edinburgh City Police.

I think only one of the officers resided in the police station while the other occupied a 'police house' either adjoining or nearby. Gilmerton continued to operate as an Edinburgh City police station until 29th May 1933."

Edward McMillan, Edinburgh:  April 13, 2008

Recollections

10.

Archie Young

Moredun, Edinburgh

Robin's Nest Inn

"Here are two recent photos of the original Robin's Nest Inn.

Stenhouse

"The inn was situated in Ellen's Glen Road.  This was in days gone by, when the area was called Stenhouse, otherwise known as Stennis.  At one time, Stenhouse was a Hamlet with a mill, a church, two piggeries and a farm.  There must have quite a population at one time."

Poll Tax

"If you look at the well you'll see little rose bushes growing.  We think of the Poll Tax as being a new thing but it was around at the time the inn was built.

The story is that, providing the rose bushes  flowered, the Inn would be free from paying the Poll Tax.  This would not happen today with the existing Council."

Closed when?

"I've spoken to the new owner.  He thinks the inn was built around the mid-1700s.  It was still operating as an inn back in 1922.  When it closed, I've no idea.  One man I spoke to told me his father drank in it when as a young man.  This would, at a guess, be the mid-1930s.

The new Robins Nest on Gilmerton Road opened around the mid 1950s."

Window

"There is a strange looking round window on top of the old inn, perhaps someone may recognise it and know what it's called.

The name Robin's Nest, it seems, does not refer to the little bird but to Robin Hood.  Why, I'm uncertain.  Perhaps, originally, the inn was owned by someone who had lived in Nottingham.

The original sign outside the inn had the figure of Robin Hood painted on it.  This is just speculation from my point but, there again, it may be true."

Archie Young, Moredun, Edinburgh, April 27, 2008.

If you know anything else about the original Robin's Nest Inn, please email me, then I'll pass on your message to Archie Young who provided the photos above.

Thank you.    -  Peter Stubbs:  April 27, 2008

Recollections

11.

Archie Young

Moredun, Edinburgh

Archie Young subsequently wrote:

16th Century

"After digging up the old records, it seems that in the early days Gilmerton had what they called a 'Play Day'.  It started around the 16th century, it was still going in the 17th century.

It was a favourite for the people of Edinburgh and Leith who travelled to see it.  When it was over, there was merry making all night, and a fight or two.  Eventually, the 'Play Day' was stopped because it was thought to be lewd and licentious."

Robin's Nest Inn

"I think, on looking back, that this is probably where the Robin's Nest Inn got its name.

During the 'Play Day', the carters would race their horses through the street, possibly Main Street or Drum Street.  There were two banners used, then bid for at an auction, the 'Gilmerton Banner' and the 'Stennis Best'.  The 'Stennis Best' seems to have been more popular."

Archie Young, Moredun, Edinburgh, May 7, 2008.

Recollections

12.

Archie Young

Moredun, Edinburgh

Archie Young provided the photograph below and wrote:

Gilmerton Coal Pit

     ©

"The Coal Pit was called the 'Brozie' or 'Brosie' .  I've checked the dictionary and found nothing, but obviously it meant something to the miners.

In those days there were no baths or showers at the pit, so when the miners finished their shift, instead of walking up through the Village as black as the coal they had dug, they walked up what they called 'The Middle Strip', shown as Middle Walk on the photograph above.

This strip was a cart track that divided the two fields.  It would bring them out at the top of New Street or Ravenscroft Street."

Archie Young, Moredun, Edinburgh, May 1, 2008.

Recollections

13.

Archie Young

Moredun, Edinburgh

Archie Young spoke to more people at Gilmerton, then wrote:

Police House and Police Station

"Success at last.

I spoke to the lady who has lived in the village all her days.  She told me that the Police House was No. 77 and the jail or cells were No. 79.

She went on to explain that, as a little girl, she used to play with her friend who lived there.  She said the cells, as far as she can recall, were downstairs and she found it very creepy.

She gave me the names of the Police Officers:

-  Sandy Aitchison

-  Bob Murray

-  Frank Coutts."

Archie Young, Moredun, Edinburgh, May 7, 2008.

Recollections

14.

Andrew Muir

Gilmerton, Edinburgh

Andrew Muir noticed that the 'Pin Hall' at Gilmerton was mentioned in 6 above, and asked some questions.

Andrew wrote:

The PIN Society

"I saw, the other day, a silver snuff box with this inscription."

Andrew added:

Questions

"Can you tell me what the Society did and do you have any suggestion who James Anderson was and what he did?"

Andrew Muir, Gilmerton, Edinburgh:   August 12, 2008.

Recollections

15.

Archie Young

Moredun, Edinburgh

Thank you to Archie Young who made more enquiries about ... then wrote:

Pins

"I spoke to a lady who was born and bred in Gilmerton.  She she is in her mid eighties, she told me that the  'Pins' were elaborately made flags, and they were sold off to help the poor unfortunates in Gilmerton.

This would be during the 'Carter Play Day' as well, bearing in mind there was no Social Security, no accident insurance and no pensions in those days.

Carter Play Days

"Carters Play Days' originated with the Gilmerton Play Day.  From around the 1500s onwards,  they used to put on a play about Robin Hood.  It is from this I think that the original Robin's Nest Pub or Inn at Stenhouse ( Stennis ) up Ellen's Glen Road got its name.  The actors probably went there afterwards for an Ale or two to relax and rest.

Archie provided more information about the carters

Moredun House

"Where Morrison's Store is now, was once the site of a large estate and house known originally as 'Gutteries'.  It then became 'Good Trees' and finally 'Moredun House'.

When the house was known by the latter name it was in the possession of a David Anderson.  I think that he may have had a son.  He definitely had two daughters.  They were the final owners of the house..

The fact that this James Anderson has 'Esq' (short for Esquire) after his name means that in those days he would have been a  man of prominence.

This is what makes me think that he was may have been a sibling of David Anderson.  It would seem that the Anderson family was very generous to the villagers and to the upkeep of Gilmerton church.

PIN Society

"The PIN Society was, I think, connected to the 'Carter Play Days'.

There were a few of these societies in the Gilmerton area.  The Friendly Society and the Junior Society are two that come to mind.

I have a feeling that the local people used to make fancy pins for the Play Days and sold them off.  What kind of pins they were I don't know.  They, they may have been for lapels or dresses, or they could have been hat pins.

The money taken for these pins went to the local poor, unemployed, sick and elderly funds.  In those days, there were no proper pensions or unemployed benefits."

PIN Hall

"Here is a photo of mine of the Friendly Society Hall 'PIN Hall' in Gilmerton.

  ©

"Here is a close up of the plaque on the wall of this  building."

©

Archie Young, Moredun, Edinburgh :  August 29, 2008

Recollections

16.

Archie Young

Moredun, Edinburgh

Thank you to Archie Young who made more enquiries about the history of Gilmerton and discovered:

1. Processions:  The carters' Friendly Societies supported carters in old age and in ill-health, and provided a day's recreation, when there was an annual procession of cart horses, decorated with flowers and ribbons.  The procession was accompanied through neighbouring parishes by a band.                                                            [ The New Statistical Account Of Liberton, 1845]

2. Clydesdale Cart Horse:  There was a Gilmerton Carter who had a beautiful cart horse a Clydesdale.  This horse was massive.  In a Horse Show, it was stated that it must have been the tallest horse on earth.  There is a photo of it in the Gardner's Arms Pub

Archie added:

Pins

"I spoke to a lady who was born and bred in Gilmerton.  She she is now in her mid-eighties.  She told me that the  'pins' were elaborately made flags, and they were sold off to help the poor unfortunates in Gilmerton.

This would be during the 'Carter Play Day' as well, bearing in mind there was no Social Security or accident insurance and there were no pensions in those days."

Carter Play Days

"Carters Play Days' originated with the Gilmerton Play Day.  From around the 1500s onwards.  The actors used to put on a play about Robin Hood.

It's from this, I think, that the original 'Robin's Nest  Inn' at Stenhouse (Stennis) would have got its name.  The actors probably went to the 'Robin's Nest Inn' after the play for an Ale or two, to relax."

Archie Young, Moredun, Edinburgh :  August 29, 2008

Recollections

17.

James W Turner

Israel

Thank you to James W Turner who wrote:

Gilmerton Convalescent Home

"My late grandmother was brought up in the Gilmerton Convalescent Home. She was born 6 weeks after her father 5087 L/CPL James Wallace was killed on the Somme.

She spent ten years at the home and had a good childhood with lots of toys and plenty of food etc."

Keighren Family

"My other gran, Sara Maie Turner, was a cousin to the Keighrens mentioned on the web site"

James W Turner, Israel:  Message posted in EdinPhoto Guest Book:  December 17, 2008

Recollections

18.

Brian Cameron

Dalkeith, Midlothian, Scotland

Thank you to Brian Cameron who wrote:

Police Station

"The old police station in Gilmerton was demolished to make way for an entrance to the East Farm housing development.

It was for many years used as a general store run by Frank Coutts, and later as a plumbers.  it was next door to the joiner's yard.  Across the road in Innes Buildings."

Post Office

"Almost directly opposite, was the original Post Office before it moved to Ravenscroft Street (formerly Main Street), it can still be identified by remains of the red paint around the door and window."

Shops

"Gilmerton was very well served for shops, with several bakers, a dairy and several newsagents.  I'll try to list them, others can fill in the gaps and names as I don't recall them all.

Starting at the south travelling north towards Edinburgh:

-  A Plenderleith (on right)

-  opposite, Drum Cottages, Gardeners Arms (on left)

-  Coutts General Store (on right)

-  Post Office (on left)

-  Joiners (on right)

-  Cafe Marandola (spelling?) (on right)

-  Bakers (on right)

I can't remember the name of this baker, but he lived in Ferniehill Road, the last house before the area which suffered subsidence, opposite the Dell.  Unfortunately, his house suffered in that event and he had to be moved out on his birthday.  I think he was in his 90s.  His house had to be demolished, and he died not long after,

-  Beehive Wool shop (on left)

-  Newsagents on corner with Main Street

-  Royal Bank (on right)

-  Henniker Newsagent (on right)

-  May Tait Greengrocer (on right)

-  Mechanic Arms (on left)

-  A H Thomes TV Store (on right)

-  AH Cumberland Fishmonger (on right)

-  AH Thomes TV Shop (on right)

Opposite, where the Vet is now, there used to be a barber, possibly called Bain.

The ESSO garage where the bingo hall  now stands.  This was built on an old quarry, which I think had a blacksmith on the site previously.

At the corner of the crossroads, stood the CO-OP general store and next to that the CO-OP butchers.

Further down at the junction with Ferniehill Road was Goodfellows Chemist and further down at the junction with Moredun Dykes Road was the Regent, later Texaco petrol station with a wooden-built CO-OP behind.

In Main Street there was Blacklock's market garden and just before the vennel a couple of shops including a butchers (Campbell's?) and general store.

At the other side of the vennel, another shop latterly a bookmakers, I can't remember what it was in the late-1950s.

Further up there was a newsagents and a baker's (Guilder) and dairy opposite.

At the top of Main Street there was 'The Corner Shop' which was another general store.

In Newtoft Street was:

-  Willie Blair's shop which was split in 2 to form a sweetie shop on the left and a chip shop on the right.

- The Ravenscroft Convalescent home, which became an annex of Gilmerton Primary School for a while.  It was popular for its big open fires.

-  Next to it was the Boys' Remand Home (I think under the name of Guthrie's) later to become the Social work office.

In the late 1950s, most of the vacant halls in Gilmerton were used as annexes, Society Hall, Greenhalls, the Guildry Hall and also the old Moredun Primary School.

Jimmy White will recall most of these as we seemed to travel around them together.

Brian Cameron, Dalkeith, Midlothian, Scotland:  December 29, 2008

Recollections

18.

Ron Ross

Brampton, Ontario, Canada

Thank you to Ron Ross who wrote:

Home

"I stumbled across the pages about Gilmerton on your website .  It has been an incredible walk down memory lane for me.

I lived in a prefab at 4 Hyvot Terrace from 1949 until 1958.

 The prefabs were demolished in 1962."

Exploring

"I share many of the memories recalled by Jimmy White (in 5A to 8 above) especially about exploring the limestone caves.  He and I must have crossed paths countless times in those days."

Shops

"Brian Cameron's list of the shops in the main part of Gilmerton (in 18 above) is excellent.

-  The baker on Drum Street was Williams.  His shop was right next door to Henniker the newsagent.

-   Henniker's shop is now the RBS bank.

-  The barber shop on Drum Street was Bain.

-  The Mechanic's Arms pub was called Mitchell's in 1950.

-  The butcher on Main Street was indeed Campbell.

-  The general store on the other side of the vennel from the butcher was Meiklejohn.

-  The newsagent, further up Main Street, opposite Guilder the baker, was  Runciman.

Society Hall

"When I attended Gilmerton Primary School, we had our school dinners in the Society Hall, across the street.

 I also went to the Society Hall every Sunday to attend the Sunday School run by the Kerrs who lived on Gilmerton Road, just a few doors down from Goodfellows the chemist.

I still have the bible that was awarded to me there in 1951 for perfect attendance for a year.  The Kerrs .

CO-OP

"The wooden CO-OP building at the corner of Gilmerton Dykes Road was originally called Halliday's.  It was a self-service shop in 1949, the first self-service shop in the area."

Ron Ross, Brampton, Ontario, Canada:  February 3, 2009

Recollections

20.

Ron Ross

Brampton, Ontario, Canada

Thank you to Ron Ross who wrote:

Quarries and Cave

Holes in the Ground

"I lived in a prefab at 4 Hyvot Terrace from 1949 until 1958.  There were three large holes in the ground,  just a few yards from our front door.  We called them quarries.  Much later, I learned that Gilmerton had once been a centre for limestone quarrying.  So these holes must have been the remnants of that work."

Cowboys and Indians

"The quarries themselves provided a good play area as they were completely overgrown with small bushes, so were perfect for games of ‘cowboys and Indians’."

Gambling

"Men from the village also used to come to the quarries on a Sunday afternoon, and gamble at ‘pitch and toss’.  I’ve never played the game, but it seemed to be simple enough.  The men would take turns at tossing two coins into the air, and there would be bets placed as to the combination of heads or tails that would be showing when the coins landed on the ground.

It doesn’t sound like there was much room for skill, but it seemed to fascinate the players.  We used to watch them from hiding places.  Once or twice, when one of us was feeling really bold, we would yell “The police are coming!” then we would watch the gamblers scatter and run.   If they had caught us, we would have received a good hammering.  But they never did."

Cave Entrances

"Within one of the quarries there was an entrance to the ‘cave’.  This was even more fascinating than the quarries themselves.  In hindsight, it was also downright perilous.  But we didn’t think of that at the time.

The way into the cave (there was actually only one cave, but it had two entrances) was through a very narrow opening in the rock, close to the ground.  To get in, you had to slither on your belly.  However, once inside, it opened up enormously and there was plenty of headroom.  The only light, of course, came through the narrow entrances.  Only a few feet inside the cave, it was inky black."

Inside the Cave

"The floor of the cave was on a fairly steep incline, and it fell away sharply into the darkness.   Mining had stopped in the mid-19^th century, so the quarries and the cave must have been disused for about a hundred years when we ‘discovered’ them.

Any time we went into the cave, we always had plenty of company.  It was far too scary a place to ever go in there alone, or even with only one other pal.  If there was a group of six or seven boys and the weather was fair, we would explore the cave.  We wouldn’t go in if it was wet, because slithering in through the narrow entrance would have been a very muddy experience."

Torches

"We had to use a bit of boyish ingenuity to solve the problem of darkness inside the cave.  We made torches by cutting up old automobile tires, fastened the pieces of tire tread to long sticks with wire, then set fire to the rubber.  Several of these would give off sufficient light and would also last for a fairly long time, so they proved to be ideal for the job.

Nevertheless, we always carried spares with us, just in case the first set of torches burned themselves out.  We were reckless, but not stupid!"

Health & Safety?

"When the torches were lit the biggest hazard was the dripping, burning rubber.  We had to hold the torches out sideways, but even then most of us got nasty burns at one time or another.

With flaming, dripping torches, we would set off down the slope of the cave.  After a few feet, the soil disappeared and only rock remained.  Despite the steep slope, the footing was OK because the floor of the cave was just broken rock.

After a while, we would come to a massive rock fall.  At some time in the past, part of the ceiling had collapsed, and the pile of rubble rose several feet high.  We assumed that the rock fall had happened long ago.  Why we assumed that I don’t know.
It could very easily have been a recent fall."

To the End of the Cave

"Undaunted, we would scramble over the pile of rock and continue on our way.  The ceiling of the cave gradually got lower until, after about 100 yards, it met the floor.  We had reached the end.  There was nothing at the end except a muddy pool, where rain water collected after running down the slope from the entrance.

I don’t know what we expected to find at the end of the cave.  Ancient wall paintings, perhaps!  But there was nothing of interest, so we simply retraced our steps.  And that was the end of the cave exploration, until the next time, when we would do it all over again.  All in all, we must have done it dozens of times.

What we had done was very dangerous, although we didn’t realize it at the time."

1950s

"The whole area had been extensively mined, for both coal and limestone, and subsidences were quite common.  In the early 1950s the quarries were filled in, the ground leveled off and turned into parkland.

Some multi-floor apartment buildings were built over the site of the buried cave, and a school and other houses were built in the general area. Eventually, the school was abandoned then demolished as it experienced severe structural damage from the ground subsiding."

1990s

"In the 1990s, scores of houses, and the multi-floor apartment blocks, were razed for the same reason.  The local newspaper carried maps showing the locations of the ancient mines, and described how the long-buried galleries of the mines were finally collapsing.

Not surprisingly, the area around our house was in the middle of the limestone mines.  These collapses resulted in the ground above sinking also, rendering the buildings on them useless.  Most people thought it all very unfortunate, but those people who had lived in the area 50 years earlier could have told them.

As I read the newspaper stories about the collapses, I thought back to our days of exploring the cave.  No doubt about it; we had been fortunate."

Ron Ross, Brampton, Ontario, Canada:  February 3, 2009

Recollections

21.

Roddy Young

Ellon, Aberdeenshire, Scotland

Thank you to Roddy Young who wrote:

John Young  -  Hazeldean

"I wonder if anyone could help me to trace  any information about my father, John Young.

He ran a riding stables at 'Hazeldean', 76  Drum Street, Gilmerton from the 1930s until he died in 1953 when I was a baby.

©

My mother ran a haulage business from the same premises after he died. 

©

She was left to bring up 3 boys and a girl, Charlie, Freddie, Roddy and Maria.

We moved to Balgreen Road in about 1957.  Charlie now lives in Gorebridge and Freddie is in New Zealand. My sister Maria, sadly,  died aged 55 a couple of years ago from cancer

My mother never talked about my father, so I never found out how he died, before she passed away in 2001.  I'd like to know how he died and where,  even where he is buried.

Without the date of his death, I find it difficult to trace him in the Register House records or from cemeteries.  There are rumours in the family that he died in Dublin, or on a ferry to Ireland."

Roddy Young, Ellon, Aberdeenshire, Scotland:  February 7+20, 2009

Question

Do you remember John Young or know of anybody who might have any information about him?  If so,  please email me, then I'll pass on the details to Ron.

Thank you.   -  Peter Stubbs:  February 20, 2009

Recollections

22.

Norma Coutts

Gilmerton, Edinburgh

Thank you to Norma Coutts who wrote:

The former Gilmerton Police Station

"I was brought up in Gilmerton and lived at 77 Drum Street.

No 79 was my father's shop.  It was a drysalters, but prior to that it was the old police station, built in 1910.

My family  moved there in 1946 from Leith and lived there til 1981 when they moved to Colinton.  Both my parents are now deceased but we all loved living there.

My father used to deliver the paraffin round the houses while my mother worked in the shop. There was a door leading from the house through to the shop (police station) and two large cells at the back where all the goods were kept.

After my parents gave up the shop they rented it out to a Mr. George McBean who sold pictures and metal work.  Then, it was a plumbers' merchants.  After that, John Webb took it over as a watchmakers.

My father eventually sold the house and shop to the More-Nisbets from the Drum House who in turn sold it to contractors and is now East Farm housing estate.

I still live in Gilmerton but boy how it has changed.

Norma Coutts, Gilmerton, Edinburgh:  February 28, 2009

Recollections

23.

Brian Cameron

Dalkeith, Midlothian, Scotland

After reading the reply about Gilmerton shops from Ron Ross (19+20 above) Brian Cameron  wrote:

Baker and Bank

"Williams was the name of the baker, but it was next to the bank. The bank extended into Henniker's shop when he gave up the business.

My brother's company Moran has recently filled the gap site which existed between the bakers and the cafe. We used to take short cuts across the football pitch and through the window spaces to get to the shops."

Prefab Houses

"There were many prefabs in Drum Crescent and Ferniehill. They were replaced by more permanent houses in the late-1960s.  Ferniehill Drive did not become a through road to Dalkeith Road until the prefabs were demolished.

We lived in Drum Crescent. Our houses were  a different design to the ones at Hyvots and Moredun.  Ours were flat-roofed and were constructed with asbestos panels.

Hyvots and Moredun had two designs. both similar in appearance with pent roofs, but were constructed with harled concrete panels or corrugated aluminium panels.

Due to the extensive limestone workings which were thought to be under the prefabs at Gilmerton, extensive drilling and geological surveying was done, and only low rise housing was allowed on the area."

Glenesk Laundry

"I forgot to mention the Glenesk Laundry which stood beside the Co-op at the crossroads. Its square chimney was a landmark which could be seen from some distance.

It was painted white with a black top. The site later was occupied by a bakery and then it was cleared and Lidl and Iceland built on the site.

My grandfather worked at the laundry before moving to Craigmillar Laundry which was in West Saville Terrace at Newington."

School

"I also remember school dinners in the Society Hall, and school assemblies taken by Mr Anderson, the head teacher.

My first teacher was Miss Tweedie who I met many years later, she was married to John Cameron (no relation) of Liberton Kirk.

One of my favourite teachers was Mr Dryborough at Gilmerton Primary School, and the one I feared most was Mr Schipell * at Ravenscroft Annexe."

*  See, also, the final paragraph of 'Recollections 28' below

Friends

"I remember:

-  The Kerr family - Their house on the Gilmerton Road was called 'Beulah.'  They moved to Orchardhead Road, off Liberton Brae. Their daughter Betty was a teacher and their son Andrew was a Professor of Anatomy (I think) at Edinburgh University.

-  Andrew and May McRae, finer people you could not meet. They lived in a prefab on Ferniehill Drive, and originally used to take me and my brothers and sister to a Baptist-run Sunday School in Fernieside Primary School. 

-   Ian and Mary Campbell

-   Jean and Jim Knowles.  Sadly, Jim died a few years ago.

-  Mrs Marshall (Hyvots Bank) and Mrs Davie (Craigour) were two favourites of mine.  They were sisters and Sunday School teachers.  Mrs Davies' son Jim used to have an Ice Cream van which did the rounds in Gilmerton."

Sunday Schools

"I attended the Sunday School in the Society Hall at Gilmerton.

I also remember  the people who ran the Sunday School built Ferniehill Evangelical Church in Ferniehill Road.  It was opened in 1972.

My brother's company (Moran) also renovated the Society Hall and the Cove, and the relocated Library, he felt proud to have done something for the community he grew up in."

Petrol Stations

"There were 3 petrol stations in Gilmerton until the late 1960s:

-  one beside the Gardener's Arms, which is still operating as a garage

-  the Esso Garage, now the bingo hall.  Jimmy Turner used to own this garage and, I think, Mary Ann's newsagent opposite.   He lived on Gilmerton Road.

-  one where the Toothbox dentists is now.  This one sold Regent, then Texaco petrol.  I think the 2 brothers who ran this garage bought the one beside the Gardeners Arms."

Brian Cameron, Dalkeith, Midlothian, Scotland:  March 30, 2009

Recollections

24.

Brian Cameron

Dalkeith, Midlothian, Scotland

Thank you to Brian for sending me his recollections and photogrpahs of the housing hit by subsidence in Gilmerton in 2000.

Brian wrote:

Houses hit by Subsidence

"Here are some photos of the subsidence at Gilmerton in mid-November to mid-December 2000. This was one of the biggest events of its kind to occur in Britain."

©      ©

©      ©

Brian tells me that he took the photos with his 1 megapixel Minolta Dimage V camera.

Brian added:

Subsidence

"This collapse of underground workings beneath the houses took place after a period of prolonged, heavy rainfall, between mid-November and mid-December 2000.

The Gilmerton area had been quarried and mined for limestone until the mid-19th century and, apart from local knowledge, little was known of the extent of the underground workings as proper mapping was never carried out or recorded.

Initially the limestone was worked, by quarrying but as the strata of limestone dipped into the ground at an angle of about 25 degrees, the workers followed it using a method called 'room and stoop'.

This involved mining out an area called a 'room'.  Pillars of limestone, 'stoops', were then left.  These held up the roof. The height of the workings was up to 3 meters and the mined area represented, in this case, about 95% of the area worked."

Mining

"The pillars left to support the roof were about 1.5 meters in diameter. The erosion of some of these pillars caused the collapse of part of the area which continued due to a domino- type effect.

The groundwater was probably kept in check while Gilmerton Pit was operational, but the closing of the pit and the subsequent decision to stop pumping water from the pit probably altered the water levels and flow."

Ferniehill Houses

"The main area of collapse, in the incident in 2000, was in the Ferniehill Terrace and Ferniehill Street area adjacent to Ferniehill Road. The potential issues in the area had been  understood for some years, and when the area was being redeveloped in the 1960s extensive boring was done to ascertain the area most affected.

The decision was made to replaced the immediate post-war prefab development with low-rise housing, rather than the more densely packed high rise housing normally being built at that time."

Damage

"As can be seen from the photos most of the houses affected were small bungalows which had been built specifically for pensioners. It may also be apparent, from the photos, that these houses were built on concrete rafts to spread the load on potentially unstable ground.

The houses themselves, in most cases, survived remarkably well, and it was suggested that if they had been built with a greater separation, most of them would have hardly been damaged at all, as most of the damage was caused initially by the houses coming into contact with each other, as can be seen in the photos."

The Roads

"Large cracks appeared in the roads and areas of subsidence appeared in the adjacent children's play park.

It must be said that the streets, as built, were relatively flat.  The slopes in the photos were caused by the ground collapsing up to 2 meters in places.

The pipework that can be seen in the photos was installed at the time to bypass broken water and gas supplies."

Evacuation

"In the early part of the event, it appeared that no-one realised the potential danger and I managed to get the photos without hindrance.

I remember walking along Ferniehill Street on the second night when a woman came out and called to one of the workers and said that she thought a crack had appeared above her door. He was rather dismissive, saying it was just a plaster crack.

She asked me for a second opinion, I got on a chair and I could see a street light outside through the crack, which had widened in the few minutes since the contractor had looked at it. She went to stay with her sister that night, by next morning the whole street had been evacuated."

Earlier Incidents

"At Hyvot's Bank, about 500 meters to the SW of where the houses later collapsed, the playground of the primary school collapsed in the early 1970s.  After a delay of a few years, the primary school was demolished.

I started a campaign, then ran Gilmerton Community Centre in my spare time.  In the early days of the campaign, in the 1980s, a collapse took place in a car park, about 100 meters to the east of where the houses later collapsed.

The car park collapse caused much concern for the local people who were more aware of the extent of the underground workings than the Council appeared to."

Survey

"After the subsidence n 2000, a major survey was carried out in the wider Gilmerton area.  This was done by boring to find the voids.

Several major voids were found and many houses were demolished as the conditions underground were considered to be too dangerous.

In some areas people were decanted from their hoses for over a year while grouting was carried out to stabilize the ground."

Brian Cameron, Dalkeith, Midlothian, Scotland:  April 1, 2009

   Recollections

25.

Liz Smith (nee Mackay)

Glenrothes, Fife

Thank you to Liz Smith for leaving a message in the EdinPhoto guest book.

Liz wrote:

Liz Mackay

"I was Liz Mackay.  I lived in Cramond up until 1976.  I went to Cramond Primary and then Bellevue Secondary.  Mum, Chris, died a few years ago.  Dad, Robert still lives there.

Chrissie Wallace

Mum, Chrissie Wallace, was born and brought up in Gilmerton. She talked about living in Drum Cottages, then at Hyvots Bank Avenue.

I remember we always used to go to visit every Tuesday. The mention of Willie Blair's chip shop (4, 5A, 7A, 7B above) brought back fond memories of either buying a sweetie when we got there or going for chips later on.

My mums family all lived around about the Gilmerton, Dalkeith, Bonnyrigg area when they got married, but my mum was the outsider having moved to Cramond.

I passed through Gilmerton recently.  It has changed such a lot. Does anyone remember me or my mum and dad?   I'd love to hear from anyone.

Liz Smith (nee Mackay), Glenrothes, Fife, Scotland:
Message left in EdinPhoto guestbook, August 9, 2009

Messages to Liz

If you'd like to contact Liz, please email me, then I'll pass your message on to her (if I can discover her email address!).

Thank you.    -  Peter Stubbs:  August 10, 2009.

   Recollections

26.

Megan Williams

Newcastle-upon-Tyne,
Northumberland, England

Thank you to Megan Williams who wrote

Bakery

"My mum was born and raised in Gilmerton and it was her grandfather who owned the Williams bakery.  I was even christened in the church at the end of Ravenscroft Street.  My Auntie still lives there.

If anyone remembers the Williams family and/or the bakery (and van!) I would love to hear from them."

Megan Williams,  Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Northumberland, England:

Message posted in EdinPhoto guest book: October 20, 2009

Messages to Megan

If you'd like to contact Megan, please email me, then I'll pass your message on to her.

Thank you.    -  Peter Stubbs:  October 20, 2009.

Reply to

Recollections

26.

Helen Kerr (nee Strang)

Gilmerton, Edinburgh

Thank you to Helen Kerr who wrote:

Williams, the Bakers

"I have lived in Gilmerton all my life and recall many of the Gilmerton shops mentioned, including Williams the bakers.

They used to have a little green van that went round the local area.  My mother used to order birthday cakes for us when we were little.  I recall the chocolate cup-cakes filled with cream with a mandarin on top - my favourite.

The shop had quite a large window, almost down to street level. One day I recall the van came to the house, and when my mother went to get her purse she closed the door of the house and we were shut out!  Luckily a window was open and the driver was able to help get us back inside."

Other Bakers

"I recall was Guilders in Ravenscroft.  The smell & taste of fresh Scotch pies .... hmmmmm. 

The other large bakery was situated when Iceland / Lidl now are.  There used to be a bungalow fronting Gilmerton Road and the bakery could be accessed via a wide driveway next to the house.

We used to go in for freshly baked rolls.  When the bakery closed the bungalow was demolished and the whole area was redeveloped."

Grocer's Van

"Another van that I remember was the very large grey 'Jones' grocer's van.  It used to stop just outside the (new) Gilmerton primary school and the van had steps up into it.  Occasionally we were allowed to go & buy sweets."

Tony's Cafe

"There was also Tony's cafe where the Supperbowl is now.  Tony's had the fish & chip counter with an ice cream & confectionery counter to the right.  Towards the left and to the rear was the cafe.

I remember being asked by my dad to take a pudding basin up to get some scoops of ice cream in the summer, before we had a fridge!

Of course we always got raspberry sauce or chocolate sprinkles over the top too.  Occasionally we'd buy red cola and make ice cream floats, watching the ice cream froth up and spill out over our glasses."

Newsagent

"There used to be a newsagent's shop opposite the Manse on Ravenscroft Street, opposite Guilders the bakers.  It's long since been converted into a house."

Newsagent

"So many wonderful memories.  Taits had a sweetie counter on the left and then a grocery shop at the back and to the right.  I remember watching the staff using the cold meat-slicing machine.

Taits was great as they had various 'trays' for their sweeties.  A penny tray, a ha'penny tray etc., with blackjacks, dainty toffees, Mojos and Fruit Salads, to name a few.  There were also the sour plums, kola cubes & toffee doddles."

Supermarket

"Where the library is now, on Newtoft Street, there used to be  large house.  This was demolished after a fire and a supermarket was built  -  Kibbys.  This became Laws then Wm Lows.

Memories

"So many memories.  Reading other people's contributions just brings the memories flooding back."

Helen Kerr, Gilmerton:  February 18, 2010

Recollections

27.

Ann Valentine

East Lothian, Scotland

Thank you to Ann Valentine who wrote with a reply to Liz Smith's message above.

Unfortunately, I don't have an email address for Liz, so I'm not able to contact her to tell her about this reply.  I hope Liz finds the message below.

Message for Liz Smith

Ann wrote to Liz Smith:

Message for Megan Williams

Ann wrote to Megan Williams:

Ann Valentine, East Lothian, Scotland:  November 7, 2009

Recollections

28.

Ann Valentine

East Lothian, Scotland

Ann Valentine added:

Ann Valentine, East Lothian, Scotland:  November 7, 2009

  Recollections

29.

David Bain

Rotherham, South Yorkshire, England

Thank you to David Bain who wrote:

David Bain, Rotherham, South Yorkshire, England  November 8, 2009

  Recollections

30.

John Kay

Gilmerton, Edinburgh

John Kay, Gilmerton, Edinbrugh wrote:

John Kay, Gilmerton, Edinburgh:  January 31, 2010

Answer

If you know where Quarterfaire was, or anything else about it, please email me, then I'll pass on your message to John.  Thank you.

Peter Stubbs:  January 31, 2010

Recollections

31

Forbes Wilson

near Guildford, Surrey, England

Forbes Wilson wrote

Gilmerton

"Having lived at 12 Gilmerton Dykes Street from 1957 to 1977, and knowing the area very well, I was wondering if any of your readers could assist me with the following question."

1940 Map  -  Question

"In your 1940 map of the Gilmerton area, I was curious to know what are the markings outlined in the red box.  They appear to be roads.

Please click on the thumbnail
 image below to enlarge the map
and see the area in the red box.

   ©

Today this area is formed by Gilmerton Dykes Crescent with the Gardens, Grove and Place in the centre with the Street to the south although the aforementioned roads do not follow the same layout."

Answer 1. to

Recollections

31

Peter Stubbs

Edinburgh

Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh:  March 10, 2010

Gilmerton Pictures

Contributors