Edinburgh History - South Edinburgh

Recollections
1.	Matt Rooney Ayrshire, Scotland	Baxters the Butchers
2.	Dave Woolard Edinburgh	Liberton Dams
3.	Bob Henderson Burdiehouse, Edinburgh	Baxters Butchers Bike and Basket Hens The Baxter Family Wages
4.	Matt Rooney Ayrshire, Scotland	Baxters Butchers
5.	Jack White Toronto, Ontario, Canada	Liberton Farm Milk Deliveries
6.	Paul Sutherland Glasgow, Scotland	Liberton Lawn Tennis Club
7.	Richard Kent Leith, Edinburgh and reply from Richard Kent Leith, Edinburgh	Liberton St Agnus
8.	Alastair Berry Nanaimo, Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada	Neighbours Wartime Meadowhead Farm Farm Workers The Mill Other Jobs Emigration
9.	Robert T Russell Minnesota, USA	Liberton High School
10.	Thomas Cook Gracemount, Edinburgh	Schools at Liberton
11.	Frank White Blackley, Manchester, England	Poor Clares Convent - Sister Anthony
12.	Danny Callaghan Blackley, Manchester, England	Poor Clares Convent
13.	Allan Dodds Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England	Dr Guthrie's Approved School
14.	Alastair Berry Nanaimo, Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada	Beekeeping
15.	Joanna Miller Liberton, Edinburgh	Kingston Avenue Building - Question
16.	Allan Dodds Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England	Shopping - Grandpa and his dog, 'Dandy'

Matt Rooney

Ayrshire, Scotland

Thank you to Matt Rooney, New Cumnock. Ayrshire, Scotland, for the recollections the second of his many jobs in and around Edinburgh, working for Baxters the Butchers at Liberton Dams

Baxters the Butchers

"I worked for Baxters the Butchers at Liberton Dams.

Miss O'Dair (?) - I'm not too sure of the spelling - gave me a penny to get the tram up to Liberton proper with a huge basket of meat parcels for the big houses in that area and across to Lasswade Road. I then had to walk back down with the Empty Basket

Going in the other direction, towards the University Annexe up at the cross roads and back again, on one December morning, I found half a crown and a penny in the snow,

This was at a time when a butcher boy's wages were £1 per week and my mum, being a widow, giving me six pence pocket money, so that I could spend it at the local cinema, three pence for the pictures and three pence for sweets. We could buy Mackays toffee in the same type of coloured paper as they use today."

Matt Rooney, ( now aged 73), Ayrshire, Scotland August 2005

Dave Woolard

Edinburgh

Thank you to Dave Woolard who wrote about picnics in Liberton, in the south of Edinburgh.

Dave refers to Eastie (East Arthur Place), Middlie (Middle Arthur Place) and Arthur Street. These are all streets in Dumbiedykes, near Holyrood Park, Edinburgh, where Dave and his family used to live.

Dave wrote:

Liberton Dams

"Most families from Eastie Middlie and Arthur street would go for picnic on a Sunday to Liberton Dams if the weather was nice.

There was a wee burn ran through the glen so we used collect stones and build dams to make the water deeper."

Dave Woolard, Edinburgh: February 12, 2007

Bob Henderson

Burdiehouse, Edinburgh

Thank you to Bob Henderson for his memories of working at Liberton.

Bob wrote

Baxters Butchers

"Before I started my slater's apprenticeship at the age of fifteen, I worked with JB Baxters at the foot of Liberton Brae.

By that time, in the first few months of 1954, we had moved on from Matt Rooney's experience at Baxters (See 1 above)."

Bike and Basket

"We had a bike with a large basket on the front. Matt used to have to walk up Liberton Brae. I used to have to trundle a bike about 3 sizes too big for me up there."

Hens

"I hope Matt reads this and he will remember the hatch next to Miss O-Dair's (I can't spell it either) cash desk, leading down to the cellar where there were stone hen coops.

The customers used to bring their birds to be killed and dressed. This job usually landed on myself and the other older apprentice butcher Peter Hunter. There was a hook arrangement on one of the supporting timbers into which you would put the birds foot so that you could pull the tendons out of the leg."

The Baxter Family

"When I was there Mr Baxter had died and there was a manager called Mr McDonald. The Baxter family lived in one of the big houses on the main road just up past the King's Buildings.

One of the jobs we had to do was take the son of the family to school on the front of the bike, up Liberton Brae to the small primary school at the top of Mount Vernon Road."

Wages

"I was much better paid than Matt we worked six days, 6 am to about 6-20 pm. - it depended on how long it took to wire brush the butcher's block - with a half day on a Wednesday all for the handsome sum of thirty shillings (£1-50) for the youngsters.

Oh happy days!"

Bob Henderson, Burdiehouse, Edinburgh: December 4, 2006

Matt Rooney

Ayrshire, Scotland

Matt Rooney replied to Bob Henderson's message (3 above).

Matt wrote:

Baxters Butchers

"Yes, I do remember the hatch beside Miss O'Dair's desk, and all the sawdust that got a bit bloody during the day when they chopped the carcasses.

I cannae remember the hen coops. I think I remember the hens hanging outside the shop but, then again, it could have been W.G. Adams, the butcher's shop at Dalkeith.

In those days, especially in the winter season, it was a common sight outside most of the butchers' shops. You would see rabbits, hares and pheasants, and most other things that were edible, back then.

I'm pleased that Bob decided to change jobs like myself. It was really quite bad at times down in the cellar, as there wasn't much heat because of the meat, but I did learn how to pare the meat of the bones before it went into the mincer."

Matt Rooney, Ayrshire, Scotland: December 8, 2007

Jack Wylie

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

After reading Pat Reid's comments about farms around Polton, Jack Wylie wrote:

Liberton Farms

"Pat's comments really bring back lots of memories, and I think more so for people like myself who left Scotland many years ago, to be exact 1954 the first time.

I've lived in Australia and South Africa, and have been in Canada since 1977. I've been back to Scotland many times for a holiday.

Before I left to go to Australia, i was living in Burdiehouse, which really isn't that far from Bonnyrigg. In those days, it was surrounded with farms.

Milk Deliveries

I delivered milk before I went to James Clark school in the morning. The farm was on Liberton Drive, and the farmer was called Marshall Milne.

I remember Granny Marshall making us a big fried breakfast before we left to deliver the milk, which was of course straight from the cows that morning.

The tips for delivering the milk were great. I think we thought everybody that lived on Liberton Drive, in these big houses was wealthy. Maybe they were.

Toronto, Ontario, Canada: reply posted in EdinPhoto guest book, December 7, 2008

Paul Sutherland

Glasgow, Scotland

Thank you to Paul Sutherland, Glasgow, who wrote:

Liberton Lawn Tennis Club

"When I Googled Liberton Lawn Tennis Club a few months ago, I discovered that the final President of the club was Robin Welsh and that he had bequeathed a file of papers and photographs to the National Library of Scotland.

The file includes a photograph of the Liberton Lawn Tennis Club Ladies' Team, 1928 - winners of the Scottish Inter-Club Cup 1924-5-6-7-8 - taken by J C H Balmain. *

I then found that Robin's father was the local land-owner and farmer, who built the tennis club on his farm at Liberton Mains. His farm house was, from memory, probably Georgian and suffered the ignominy of being bought by Scottish Brewers in the 1950s as the Inch estate grew up around it. The infamous Rob Roy pub was plonked right in front of it.

Both the pub and the farmhouse were demolished around 10 to 15 years ago to build a pocket of high-density housing - a good thing in the case of the pub and a pity in the case of the old farmhouse."

Paul Sutherland, Glasgow, Scotland: November 9, 2011

* Unfortunately, I am not able to add this photo to the EdinPhoto web site without first seeking permission from the National Library of Scotland to add it to the site.

Richard Kent

Leith Edinburgh

Richard Kent wrote:

Liberton St Agnes

"My great-great-grandmother, Jessie Rose, was a domestic servant in a house called 'Liberton, St Agnes', according to the 1871 census.

The census sheet that I downloaded from the Scotland's People website, shows this property to have been between a house called Powburn (or maybe it means the actual village of Powburn?) and a property called 'Mount Pleasant'.

I can find no record of 'Liberton St Agnes' in any Ordnance Survey map of that era, so I wonder if you think it's possible that this was purely an informal name for the house by which the family living there knew it?

I'm obviously keen to know where it may be (or may have been).

The head of the household was one Andrew Fullarton who was a 'gas meter manufacturer' and the house had two servants, so I suspect it was reasonably large and that he was fairly prosperous.

Richard Kent, Leith, Edinburgh: November 22, 2009

Reply to Richard?

If you'd like to send a reply to Richard, please email me, then I'll forward your message to him. Thank you.

Peter Stubbs: November 23, 2009

Reply

Richard Kent

Leith Edinburgh

Richard Kent found the answer to his own question (above) and told me:

Liberton St Agnes

"I finally tracked down the answer to my question (7 above) just last week. It was a villa about two thirds of the way up Kirk Brae on the left. It is now no. 73 and is called Caledon House.

The original house survived until about 5 years ago but, for reasons which seem inexplicable, it was rebuilt as a Scandinavian-style chalet!

The house next to it, 'Mount Pleasant' on that 1871 census is still there. It is now 75 Kirk Brae: it is a listed building with a sizeable garden and a white fountain."

Richard Kent, Leith, Edinburgh: November 22, 2009

Recollections

Alastair Berry

Nanaimo, Vancouver Island, British Columbia

Thank you to Alastair Berry, Vancouver Island, British Columbia, for sending me some of his memories of Liberton in the 1940s.

Alastair wrote:

Neighbours

"I lived at 4 Kirkgate

- Dr Frost lived opposite

- The Dicksons, plumbers I think, lived at No. 2.

- Granny Griffin' lived on the Corner."

Wartime

"I was 9 when the war started and 15 when it finished....

I went to Heriots by tram, a No. 1 or No. 7 to Nicolson Square, then, walked past a British Restaurant, 'The Clarinda', I think."

Meadowhead Farm

"On my holidays I worked on Meadowhead Farm a Morton Hall property , farmed by a William Hamilton who was based at Muirhouse Farm, Lasswade Road, just beyond Burdiehouse Burn. His dad had South House Farm along Captains Road."

For Meadowhead Farm, a large field had been carved out of what is now the Braid Hills golf course.

Although I was only about 14, I had a .22 pump rifle and would shoot the pigeons (to eat) that came to feast on the stooks. I also set snares to catch rabbits in the whin bushes on the Braid Hills. I must have been obnoxious!"

Farm Workers

"Turnips and oats seemed to be the main crops. The entire farm was managed, except when the mill came round, by:

- Paddy, an Irish man who lived in the farmhouse.

- 'Old Matthy' who lived in a cottage at the turn-off where a road leads up to Blackford Hill Observatory. He trudged, on foot, down to Liberton Dams then up the track by Tower Mains Farm (?) and across Braid Hills Drive to Meadowhead.

In my memory today, he looked at least 100 years old. He smoked a wee cutty pipe, with a silver lid, filled with 'Digger's Impy Twist'.

with help from:

- myself and Mrs Pendreich(?), the wife of a couple who lived in the gatehouse

- myself

- three horses.

The Mill

"Meadowhead farm had a built in mill and magnificent one-lung steam engine, but I never saw it being fired up. There was a tall brick chimney stack that set Meadowhead apart from the other district farms.

Whenit was time to thresh some wheat, the cottagers next to the smithy (Dallands?) on the corner of Captain's Road and the Penicuik Road, came out to get their bag mattresses filled with clean new wheat chaff, which seems very quaint now!"

Other Jobs

"In the event things changed at Meadowhead Farm.

Hamilton got a brand new single-cylinder John Deere, and I got into the University and worked on The Inch, Burdiehouse and several other building sites. Finally, I landed a job on the Moat Coal Pit in Roslin.

Later, my work was curtailed as I had to intern in hospitals during the holidays."

Emigration

"On graduation, I left Edinburgh, never to return, except for about 3 visits.

I've seldom looked back, and am now I am very comfortably settled on a hillside overlooking the sea, on Vancouver Island, with Google Earth and it's street views, to show me what has been going on in Edinburgh, including the demolition of three high rise apartment blocks at Gracemount that I never knew even existed!"

Alastair Berry, Age 81, Nanaimo, Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada: May 9, 2011

Recollections

Robert T Russell

Minnesota, USA

Thank you to Robert T Russell for posting a message in the EdinPhoto guestbook.

Robert wrote:

Liberton High School

Question

"My ancestor, Thomas Russell (1802-1903) was born in Liberton. He wrote that he attended high school and studied Latin.

Can someone please tell me what high school served Liberton in the early eighteen hundreds?

I would much appreciate finding the answer."

Robert T Russell, Minnesota, USA:
Message and email address posted in EdinPhoto guest book: August 7, 2011

Reply to Robert?

If you'd like to send a reply to Robert, please email me, then I'll pass on his email address to you. Thank you.

Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: August 8, 2011

Recollections

10.

Thomas Cook

Gracemount, Edinburgh

Thank you to Thomas Cook for replying to Robert T Russell's question in 9 above.

Thomas wrote:

Schools at Liberton

Reply

"Robert asks the whereabouts of a High School in Liberton in the early 1800’s.

I doubt there was a High School as South Edinburgh was then mostly agricultural

I am only aware of one school at Liberton. It was for younger children and was adjacent to the Liberton Inn at that time.

As you will be aware, only families with money enjoyed higher education and that would be in the city."

Thomas Cook, Gracemount, Edinburgh: October 9, 2011

Recollections

11.

Frank White

Blackley, north Manchester, England

Thank you to Frank White for allowing me to reproduce a photo of Poor St Clares Convent in Edinburgh.

Frank wrote:

Poor Clares Convent

Sister Anthony

"Here is a picture of Poor Clares Convent, Lasswade Rd Liberton, Edinburgh. On the back of the picture it is blank apart from an address.

My great aunt, Sister Anthony (Honorah White, b.1892 Preston) was a nun at the convent from 1955 up to her death in January 1959.

She joined the order at Bullingham, Hereford, then moved in 1927, as a young professed, to open help establish an order in Workington. By 1945 she was in charge of the externs.

In June 1948 sister Anthony and twelve other sisters moved to Tadcaster, West Yorkshire, where they founded another foundation.

In 1955 the community moved, yet again, to Edinburgh. Sister Anthony remained in Edinburgh till her passing in 1959."

Question

"Can anybody give me any more info on Sister Anthon - photos or anything at all? I am tracing my family tree and any info would be helpful

She was from a large family. Her father was born in 1852 Boston USA. Her brother, William, died in Glasgow due to a fall into the dry dock on June 15 1915, while serving in the royal navy."

Frank White, Blackley, north Manchester, England: November 16, 2011

Recollections

12.

Danny Callaghan

Falkirk, Stirlingshire, Scotland

It was good to see a quick reply from Danny Callaghan to Frank White's question in Recollections 11 above.

Danny wrote:

Convent at Gracemount

"There was a post today from Frank White about the Poor Clares Convent. There is quite a bit about the convent already on the EdinPhoto web site, under heading, Gracemount. Frank may not have seen this.

I cannot offer any help, other than what I posted there, but Jim Gilmour may have more info on Sister Anthony.

I am in the area sometimes, so if Frank White would like me to, I could have a look to see if Sister Anthony is on one of the gravestones and photograph it if he wishes."

Nuns and Monks

Names

"It's a funny thing that Frank White's great aunt was called Sister Anthony!

I was told, the other day, that at Polmont Borstal, just down from me, there was an order of monks who worked there, looking after the Catholic boys.

They also had a strange name system. One was called Father Mary Joseph. On his first interview with a new inmate, he used to look to see if they sniggered etc at his name. If they did they got a bit of a roughing up and never sniggered again. Imagine if they tried that now!"

Danny Callaghan, Falkirk, Stirlingshire, Scotland: November 27, 2011

Recollections

13.

Allan Dodds

Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England

Thank you to Allan Dodds who wrote:

Dr Guthrie's Approved School

"My grandparents lived at Liberton.

Every Sunday morning at Liberton Kirk the 'bad boys', as they were then called, from Dr Guthrie's Approved School - then called a borstal, would attend church dressed in a dowdy grey.

I was always warned against bad behaviour and the Guthrie boys were a constant reminder of what lay in store for miscreants."

Allan Dodds: November 26, 2011

Recollections

14.

Alastair Berry

Nanaimo, Vancouver Island, British Columbia

Thank you to Alastair Berry, who wrote:

Beekeeping

"I was a kid, aged twelve in 1942, when I took a College of Agriculture course on Beekeeping. The practical side of the course was done at the Experimental Farm at The Inch, near the doocot.

James Cunningham and George Pearce(?) from Peebles ran the apiary, and occasionally. I handled the bees there, as I kept two hives at home, at 4 Kirkgate, Liberton. I was not scared of bees, if a demonstration was being done.

It was through beekeeping that I met James Dunbar from out Murrayfield way. He kept bees too, in his back garden. He was the mainstay of Dunbar's lemonade factory in Albion Road."

Alastair Berry, Nanaimo, Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada: January 26, 2012

Recollections

Joanna Miller

Liberton, Edinburgh

Joanna Miller wrote:

Question

Kingston Avenue Building

"I am researching the Liberton area as a bit of a new hobby. I am keen to find out more about a building at the end of Kingston Avenue on Old Dalkeith Road. It is just rubble now but it looks like it was a farm at some point and I have heard it may have been a dairy.

Do you have any pictures of this building or do you have any information about it?"

Joanna Miller, Liberton, Edinburgh: May 3, 2012

Reply to Joanna

Unfortunately, I don't have any pictures or information to pass on to Joanna, but perhaps somebody else may be able to help her. If you'd like to contact Joanna, please email me, then I'll give you her email address.

Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: May 3, 2012

Recollections

Allan Dodds

Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England

Thank you to Allan Dodds for sending me an extract about Liberton from his book, describing his grandfather and his pet dog, Dandy. Allan tells me that both of whom lived together at Liberton in the 1950s.

Grandfather was 80 and Dandy was 12, each of them close to the end of their lives, when these events took place.

Alan wrote:

Shopping

Grandpa and his dog, 'Dandy'

"As Grandpa grew older he recruited Dandy to assist with his shopping. Dandy would be given a bag to carry in his mouth, containing a purse and a shopping list.

He would then be pointed down the road to the top of Liberton Brae where he would scratch at the door of the first shop. The shopkeeper would open the door, let Dandy in, and open the bag to read the note and see what was wanted. With the goods placed in the bag and the right money taken,

Dandy would be shown into the shop next door, and so on until all the shops had been visited. Then Dandy would carry the shopping back to Grandpa who would check the purse for change to see that he hadn’t been swindled by any of the shopkeepers."

Allan Dodds, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England
Extract from Allan's book: 'Laughin' on the Ither Side o' Ma Face'