The Bass Rock, seen from outside the Seabird Centre, North Berwick

On the Beach

Old Photo

Thank you to John Stirling for allowing me to reproduce this photo. The photo is taken from a collection of lantern slides that John rescued from being destroyed in 1974. The photographer is not known.

Some of the other slides from this series are known to have been taken between about 1910 and 1920.

When and Where?

Is it near North Berwick?

If you can suggest when and where this photo might have been taken, please email me.

Maybe the photo was taken from North Berwick in East Lothian (about 25 miles to the east of Edinburgh) or nearby, with the Bass Rock in the background. The top of the rock looks a little flatter than it appears on some photos, but it, no doubt, looks different when photographed from different positions.

Peter Stubbs: November 22, 2009

Answer

Walter Lyle Hume

Cowes, Isle of Wight

Thank you to Walter Lyle Hume who wrote:

Another Photo

"Here is another photo taken on the beach, circa 1925. This photo has Craigleith Island in the background.

Food for thought!"

Craigleith Island

Walter Lyle Hume, Cowes, Isle of Wight: November 23, 2009

Craigleith Island

Craigleith Island is in the Firth of Forth, about a mile to the north of North Berwick and 3 miles to the west of the Bass Rock.

The island in the photograph at the top of this page appears to have less of a slope than Craigleith in the photograph above. However, maybe the shape of Craigleith looks different when viewed from different parts of the coast near North Berwick.

Peter Stubbs: November 23, 2009

Answer

David Bain

Rotherham, South Yorkshire, England

Thank you to David Bain who wrote:

East Lothian

"Aberlady? I'm sure that's the Bass Rock in the background."

David Bain, Rotherham, South Yorkshire, England: November 23, 2009

Aberlady?

If the island is the Bass Rock, or even if it's Craigleith Island, I don't think the photo could have been taken from Aberlady, because there is no clear view across the water to of either of these islands from Aberlady. The headland to the west of North Berwick is in the way.

Peter Stubbs: November 23, 2009

Answer

Bryan Gourlay

Biggar, Lanarkshire, Scotland

Thank you to Bryan Gourlay for sending me two photos, showing the shape of Craigleith Island as seen from North Berwick. Bryan took these photos at Easter 2009. Here is one of them:

Craigleith Island

Bryan wrote:

Not Craigleith

"The island in the photo of the four children is a different shape and looks to be too far offshore to be Craigleith.

It's also not the same shape as the Bass Rock looking from North Berwick. Perhaps it has been taken further East of the town from a beach near Seacliffe close to Tantallon Castle, where it would also be a little bit further offshore"

Bryan Gourlay, Biggar, Lanarkshire, Scotland: November 24, 2009

Answer

Walter Lyle Hume

Cowes, Isle of Wight

Thank you to Walter Lyle Hume who wrote:

The Lamb?

"Having been brought up in North Berwick, albeit many years ago, I got to know the offshore Islands very well, to say nothing of my years the Northern Lighthouse ships.

This picture could even be the Lamb, between the Craig and Fidra. I am sure it is not the Bass.

Walter Lyle Hume, Cowes, Isle of Wight: November 24, 2009

The Lamb is:

- about 1 mile NW of North Berwick and

- about 1 mile WSW of Craigleith.

Peter Stubbs: November 24, 2009

Answer

Archie Foley

Joppa, Edinburgh

Thank you to Archie Foley for sending me a photograph of the Bass Rock, taken from a passing ferry, and for also sending this photo with Craigleith in the background.

Archie wrote:

Not Craigleith

"I have looked through my collection of North Berwick images made from restored negatives from about 1905. I can't find one with the Bass Rock in the background.

However, this one of Nurse Annie and Tommy with dog shows the distinctive shape of Craigleith.

Craigleith Island

Nurse Annie and Tommy with dog, and Craigleith Island in the background - Around 1905

Archie Foley, Joppa, Edinburgh: November 24, 2009

Answer

David Bain

Rotherham, South Yorkshire, England

Thank you to David Bain for telling me me about more photos of the Bass Rock and Craigleith that appear elsewhere on the internet.

Following on from his comments in 'Answer 2' above, David added:

East Lothian

"I just had to keep digging (sand) on this one. was wrong about Aberlady - I haven't been there for thirty-odd years!"

"But I think I was right about the Bass. If so, the photo looks to me to have been taken from somewhere to the east of North Berwick."

David Bain, Rotherham, South Yorkshire, England: November 25, 2009

Answer

Bryan Gourlay

Biggar, Lanarkshire, Scotland

Thank you to Bryan Gourlay for sending me this photo showing the shape of the Bass Rock, seen from outside the Seabird Centre at North Berwick.

The Bass Rock
from North Berwick

Acknowledgement: Bryan Gourlay, Biggar, Lanarkshire, Scotland: November 24+25, 2009

Answer

Bob Henderson

Burdiehouse, Edinburgh

Thank you to Bob Henderson for sending me two more photos of the Bass rock. Both are views looking to the Bass Rock from Tantallon Castle. Here is one of them:

The Bass Rock
from Tantallon Castle

Acknowledgement: Bob Henderson, Burdiehouse Edinburgh 25, 2009

Comparison with the Mystery Photo

Neither the photo above nor that in 'Answer 7' above shows the Bass Rock as being a good match for the island in the background of the old photo above, but I feel we're getting closer.

The island in the old photo looks lower than the Bass Rock, but perhaps the old photo was taken at high tide and the two recent photos at low tide - or alternatively, perhaps the island in the old photo is not the Bass Rock!

Four children on the beach - Where is it?

Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: November 26, 2009

Answer

Bryan Gourlay

Biggar, Lanarkshire, Scotland

Thank you to Bryan Gourlay for emailing me again, enclosing this photo of the Lamb, an island about a mile NW of North Berwick. The photo was taken from North Berwick at Easter 2009.

Bryan wrote:

The Lamb

"I am not as well versed in the islands around North Berwick as Walter Lyle Hume (Answer 4 above) – but here is a photo I took this year of what I think is the Lamb in the distance.

It's about a mile to the left of Craigleith, just where you describe it. It looks about the right shape for the island behind the girls on the beach.

The Lamb
from North Berwick

Acknowledgement: Bryan Gourlay, Biggar, Lanarkshire, Scotland: November 25, 2009

Answer

10.

David Bain

Rotherham, South Yorkshire, England

Thank you to David Bain for writing again, telling me about his further investigations.

David wrote:

The Bass Rock

"I have now searched all the available photographs and have worked out, by the visible shape of the Bass and its relative size in the photograph, that the scene of four children on the beach would have been taken from further East than Tantallon and further North than Dunbar."

After another look at the map, my money would be on the photo having been taken at Belhaven."

David Bain, Rotherham, South Yorkshire, England: November 27, 2009

David:

Trying to match the shape of the Bass rock, when viewed from different angles is important, care should be taken in drawing any conclusions from the size of the bass rock in the photo, when it is not known what lens camera and lens was used to take the photo, and whether or not the photo has been cropped.

e.g. If two photos were taken on the beach:

- one with a 50mm lens and the children 10 yards away

- one with a 100mm (i.e. more telephoto) lens and children 20 yards away

The children would look the same size in each photo, but the length and height of the Bass Rock would appear to be double in the second photo.

Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: November 28, 2009

Answer

11.

David Bain

Rotherham, South Yorkshire, England

David Bain followed up with this message:

The Bass Rock

"I am now more confident than ever that the photo was taken at Belhaven, with the Bass Rock in the background.

The Lamb is a good shape, but the Bass is a better match."

David Bain, Rotherham, South Yorkshire, England: November 27+28, 2009

Belhaven Photo Found

David based this conclusion on a photo of children playing at Belhaven, Sands, Dunbar, with the Bass Rock in the background. The photo is from a negative by Valentines, registered October 19, 1955. It is reproduced below.

A half-plate print of this photo is held in the St Andrew's University Library. The 1955 photo and early 'mystery photo' are compared below.

Belhaven Bay seems a likely place for children to have been photographed, beside the sea, in the early photo, but was that photo actually taken there? The shape of the Bass Rock looks similar, but not identical, in both photos below.

1955

© Reproduced courtesy of the University of St Andrew's Library. Project763, Ref JV-D1146
Licensor: www.scran.ac.uk Ref.000-000-600-920-C

Early 1900s

Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: December 2, 2009

Answer

Bil Fulton

East Lothian, Scotland

Thank you to Bil Fulton, a keen stereo photographer living in East Lothian, Scotland, for recognising this view of the bridge at Belhaven, Dunbar and sending me one of his photos taken at the same location in 2010.

Bil wrote:

Belhaven

"This structure at Belhaven is known as 'The Bridge to Nowhere'.

There is a good view of the Bass Rock in the background from here. This is one of our favourite spots when we are walking or cycling.

2010

This is a stereo shot that I took of the bridge in 2010, using a single camera."

Bil Fulton, East Lothian, Scotland: April 26+28, 2011

Answer

13.

David Anderson

Glasgow, Scotland

David Anderson wrote:

Further Afield?

"I'm wondering if the net may have to be cast further afield.

Can I throw Ailsa Craig into the equation? I'm wondering about whether the image might be reversed, combined with the light direction and the profile of the island - perhaps Ayr Sands."

David Anderson, Glasgow, Scotland: January 21, 2012

David:

Most of the other photos in the collection that this one came from were taken in or near Edinburgh. From all the evidence and comments to date, it seems likely to me that this photo would have been taken on the Forth, probably at Belhaven Bay near Dunbar in East Lothian. See Reply 11 above.

I'll leave others to comment further.

Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: January 21, 2011

Answer

14.

Ian Stewart

Morningside, Edinburgh

Ian Stewart wrote:

Ailsa Craig

"It could be Ailsa Craig."

Ian Stewart, Morningside, Edinburgh: January 22, 2012

Answer

15.

David Anderson

Glasgow, Scotland

David tells me that he lives in Glasgow and works in Dunbar, East Lothian, so he is familiar both with beaches on the west coast of Scotland and on the Firth of Forth in East Lothian.

David wrote:

Ailsa Craig?

"When I saw this photo, the shape, position and orientation of the beach and rock did not immediately strike me as being one of the beaches that I was familiar with on the East Lothian coast of the Firth of Forth.

Having wandered through Google images, I tend to the view that it is a reversed image of Ailsa Craig from Ayr beach. We take our wee laddie to Ayr. Hence my observation."

David Anderson, Glasgow, Scotland: January 23 2012

Answer

16.

David Bain

Rotherham, South Yorkshire, England

Thank you to David Bain who wrote:

Not Ailsa Craig?

"I've looked at any available photographs of Ailsa Craig and it looks too 'pointy' to me.

We desperately need a volunteer to take a Sunday run out to prove or disprove the Bass by taking photographs near the tide line at Belhaven. I'd do it but I'm 250 miles away!

The matching focal length is moot but a set of images through the range of a standard zoom should achieve something like the original field of view."

David Bain, Rotherham, South Yorkshire, England: January 25, 2012