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Edinburgh Where and When? |
© Reproduced with acknowledgement to John Stirling, Currie, Edinburgh: Oct 22, 2009 Photographer not known
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Railings, Stairs and an Arch |
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Old Photo Thank you to John Stirling for allowing me to reproduce this photo. The photo is taken from a collection of lantern slides that John rescued from being destroyed in 1974. The photographer is not known. Some of the other slides from this series are known to have been taken between about 1910 and 1920. |
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When and Where? If you can suggest when and where this photo might have been taken, please email me. Peter Stubbs: October 25, 2009 |
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Answers |
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Please click on one of the links below, or scroll down this page. |
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1. |
John Stirling |
- Tron Square High School Yards Portsburgh Square |
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2. |
John Hadden |
- Lampposts |
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3. |
Tony Ivanov |
- High School Yards |
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4. |
Bryan Gourlay |
- West Port |
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5. |
Peter Stubbs |
- West Port |
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6. |
John Hadden |
- Not West Port |
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7. |
Peter Stubbs |
- Near Portsburgh Square |
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8. |
Bon Henderson |
- Portsburgh Square - Not Portsburgh Square |
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9. |
Danny Callaghan |
- Abbeyhill? |
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10. |
Bryan Gourlay |
- West Port - Not Abbeyhill |
| 11. |
Peter Stubbs |
- Location still not known |
| 12. |
David Thomson |
- Portsburgh Square? |
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David Thomson |
- Portsburgh Square? |
| 14. |
Terry
McGuire |
- Johnstone Terrace? |
| 15. |
Allan Dodds |
- Pleasance Theatre? |
| 16. |
Frank Ferri |
- Johnstone Terrace? |
| 17. |
- Portsburgh Square? |
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Answer 1. John Stirling Currie, Edinburgh |
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Thank you to John Stirling for commenting on where this photo might have been taken. John wrote: |
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Tron Square? "Perhaps these railings were in Tron Square, or High School Yards, or Portsburgh Square." John Stirling, Currie, Edinburgh: October 23, 2009. |
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Answer 2. John Hadden Edinburgh |
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Thank you to John Hadden, Edinburgh, who wrote |
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Lamp Posts "I've thought about where this photo might have been taken, a few times, but without success. I notice that the street lamp in the foreground is a good match for the street lamps that can be seen on the old postcards of Abbey Strand and Comely Bank Avenue. Does that make it more likely that the photograph was taken within Edinburgh City?" John Stirling, Currie, Edinburgh: October 23, 2009. |
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Answer 3. Tony Ivanov Bo'ness, West Lothian, Scotland |
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Thank you to John Hadden, Edinburgh, who wrote |
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High School Yards? "When I first saw this photo on your web site, I thought of High School Yards, and the more I think of it the more I'm sure of it. The edge of the building on the left of the photo with the staircase could well be the old city morgue as it was situated at this end of the street." Tony Ivanov, Bo'ness, West Lothian, Scotland: November 10, 2009 |
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Answer 4. Bryan Gourlay Biggar, Lanarkshire, Scotland |
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Thank you to Bryan Gourlay who wrote: Not High School Yards? "It's surprising that none of your intrepid followers have pinned the location down yet. I don’t think it’s the High School Yards. The buildings in the unidentified photo (above) don’t look to be the same as those in this recent photo of High School Yards: |
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Bryan added: West Port "I have a vague memory that, many years ago, there was a gap in the buildings on the north side of the West Port between Lady Lawson Street and the Grassmarket where you could see through and down to some buildings in the background a bit like this. Entry to the buildings may have been from about 100 yards or so along King's Stables Road from the Grass Market. If the photo was taken by the same chap who took those of St Patrick’s Square and St Mary’s Street, the location is likely to be somewhere in Edinburgh." I wish someone would put us out of our misery." |
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Bryan Gourlay, Biggar, Lanarkshire, Scotland: November 12, 2009 |
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Answer 5. Peter Stubbs Edinburgh |
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West Port I had a walk down West Port yesterday, and think that Bryan may well have the answer when he suggests that the photo might have been taken looking to the north from West Port towards King's Stables Lane and King's Stables Road. There have been some changes in this area since the photo was taken, and not all of what remains can be easily accessed now. I found a number of locked gates in the area near King's Stables Lane. The buildings in Portsburgh Square (very close to this area, and also between West Port and King's Stables Road) are clearly not the same buildings as in the old photo - they are four stories high. However, they have very similar architecture to the lower buildings in the background of the 'mystery photo' at the top of this page. Note the roof gables (some triangular, some curved), terraces with railings and the style of windows in the two photos below. Portsburgh Square
© peter.stubbs@edinphoto.org.uk Photograph taken September 11, 2007 Looking to the NE from West Port?
© Reproduced with acknowledgement to John Stirling, Currie, Edinburgh: Oct 22, 2009
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Peter Stubbs: November 14, 2009 |
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Answer 6. John Hadden Edinburgh |
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Thank you to John Hadden, Edinburgh, who wrote |
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Not West Port "I'm afraid I don't agree that this is West Port. West Port is not level, but the road in the foreground seems to be level. (The railings look pretty level and the water on the road seems to be pooling and not draining away, except towards the gutter.) I agree that the Portsburgh Square houses are higher than those in the mystery picture. I've looked at this 1893-94 map for other similar (but lower) houses in the area, but found no evidence of any. I think the style of the Portsburgh Square houses and those in the mystery photo may suggest a similar purpose and a similar age, possibly council housing erected around the turn of the century? John Hadden, Edinburgh: November 15, 2009 |
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Answer 7. Peter Stubbs Edinburgh |
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Near Portsburgh Square John's speculation about the possible date and purpose of the housing above is borne out by this description of Portsburgh Square in the book, 'The Buildings of Scotland - Edinburgh' (John Gifford et al.): "Balconied housing of 1900 by City Engineer's Dept". Peter Stubbs: November 15, 2009 |
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Answer 8. Bob Henderson Burdiehouse, Edinburgh |
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Thank you to Bob Henderson who wrote: |
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Portsburgh Square? "From looking at this photo many times and reading all the suggestions I think this could well be Portsburgh Square I do not think the cobbled roadway is the West Port, but a higher area behind the houses which would have faced the square. It could have been where the 1930s housing now stands in the West Port opposite Portsburgh square" Bob Henderson, Burdiehouse, Edinburgh: November 15, 2009 |
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Not Portsburgh Square? Thanks for your comments Bob. The architecture of the houses in the background of the 'mystery photo' is certainly very similar to that in Portsburgh Square, as can be seen in Answer 5 above However, the houses in the background in the 'mystery photo' are only two stories high, whereas those in Portsburgh Square houses are four stories high. That's why I thought the houses may have been nearby, a short distance further west. However, John Hadden has examined his old maps and not found any match there. Peter Stubbs: November 15, 2009 |
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Answer 9. Danny Callaghan Falkirk, Stirlingshire, Scotland |
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Thank you to Danny Callaghan who wrote: |
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Abbeyhill? "I've looked at this picture many times and see the reasons why people have come up with their ideas. From first seeing this picture, I thought it was in Abbeyhill, near Chatam's garage. The levels don't seem right. But I used to be there a lot as a kid and that was my first reaction on seeing the picture. Someone prove me right!" Danny Callaghan, Falkirk, Stirlingshire, Scotland: November 15, 2009 |
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Answer 10. Bryan Gourlay Biggar, Lanarkshire, Scotland |
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Thank you to Bryan Gourlay who wrote again: West Port "It’s surprising this location is proving to be such a challenge, as it must have been a pretty prominent feature of the Edinburgh landscape for many years. Like John Hadden, I had noticed the level railings and road in the older photo compared with the today’s quite notable slope in West Port – but wonder whether the contour of the road has been changed at some point. There has been a lot of work in the West Port over the past 40 or so years. The peculiar the design of the buildings in the background of the 'mystery photo' and the buildings in the Portsburgh Square photo is so similar, suggesting there might be some sort of link, however tenuous." Not Abbeyhill "I’m sorry, I don’t think I can prove that Danny Callaghan is right in his suggestion that it might be near the stretch of road beside Chatham’s Honda dealership – as the terrain rises up quite steeply from Abbeyhill, eventually to Montrose Terrace. The side entrance to Chatham’s is in Abbey Mount on the spot where Stewart’s Ballroom and the Regent Picture House (featured on your site) used to be." Bryan Gourlay, Biggar, Lanarkshire, Scotland: November 18, 2009 |
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Similar Architecture Bryan Gourlay mentions the similar architecture of buildings in the para 3 above. I think the similarity is likely to be due to both buildings having been designed by the Edinburgh City Engineer's Dept. If we can discover what other buildings that Dept designed around 1900, that might help to answer the question of where the 'mystery photo' was taken. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: November 18, 2009 |
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Answer 11. Peter Stubbs Edinburgh |
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Location still not known I've recently contacted: - Historic Scotland and - RCAHMS (Royal Commission on Ancient & Historical Monuments in Scotland) - Edinburgh City Archivist to see if anybody from either organisation might recognise the location of this photo or might be able to tell me what other buildings were designed, around 1900, by Edinburgh Council's City Engineer's Dept. All have replied, but none has been able to help me. So, now I have sent an email to the Edinburgh Room at Edinburgh Central Library to see if they can help. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: December 6 + 9, 2009 |
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Update The Edinburgh Room tell me that they have not had any luck yet in identifying the location, but they are still investigating Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: December 22, 2009 |
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Answer 12. Davie Thomson Broughton, Edinburgh |
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Thank you to Davie Thomson who wrote: |
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Portsburgh Square? "I would say that this photo is of the buildings in Portsburgh Square in the West Port area." Davie Thomson, Broughton, Edinburgh: December 11, 20011 |
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Not Portsburgh Square? Hi Davie. Thanks for your comments about the old photo. I've not received any messages about that photo for a couple of years, so it's good to see the subject opened up again. Portsburgh Square is the location that I thought of when I first saw the old photo. The buildings are certainly in the same style as those in Portsburgh Square. They look to me as if they have been designed by the same person as those in Portsburgh Square (Edinburgh City Engineers Dept, 1900) but they do not seem to be an exact match. The photo in Answer 5 above shows that the buildings in Portsburgh Square are 4-storeys high, but those in this photo are only 2 storeys high: I have contacted the City of Edinburgh Council (and Historic Scotland and various other authorities) to see if anybody knows of any other buildings designed by the Edinburgh City Engineers Dept around 1900, but nobody has come up with any answers yet. Peter Stubbs: December 12, 2011 |
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Answer 13. Davie Thomson Broughton, Edinburgh |
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Davie Thomson added |
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Portsburgh Square? "The present layout of Portsburgh Square is different from when I last saw it, away back in the 1960s. I has been changed at the entrance and painted etc., which distracts from the original grey harling and russet coloured stone archwork." Davie Thomson, Broughton, Edinburgh: December 12, 20011 |
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Not Portsburgh Square? Hi David. My main concern about Portsburgh Square is still that Portsburgh Square is four storeys high, but the building in the photo below is only 2 storeys high. Peter Stubbs: December 12, 2011 |
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Reply 14. Terry McGuire Coventry, Warwickshire, England |
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Thank you to Terry McGuire who wrote: |
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Johnstone Terrace? "I think these are the old Married Quarters that lay between Castlehill and Johnstone Terrace, these were accessible through the small lane at Cannonball House, that took you down to Johnstone Terrace and the Grassmarket" Terry McGuire, Coventry, Warwickshire, England: December 12, 2011 |
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Thanks for the suggestion Terry. I'll check that out. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: December 12, 2011 |
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Reply 15. Allan Dodds Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England |
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Thank you to Allan Dodds who wrote: |
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Pleasance Theatre? "This scene looks very like the Pleasance Theatre, taken from a viewpoint just below Roxburgh Street. However, there are architectural differences. I wonder if the facade was modernised at some date. The scene looks very familiar to me as I attended Uni in that area. Our lecture hall was actually the Pleasance Theatre at one stage - no pun intended!" Allan Dodds, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England: December 12, 2011 |
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Thanks for the suggestion Terry. I'll check that out. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: December 12, 2011 |
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Update Not Pleasance Theatre I visited The Pleasance today but I could not find any buildings matching those in the old photo. I did find arches in the buildings at The Pleasance, but none of them matched the one in the photo above or looked as if it might have been a modified version of the one in the old photo. More significantly, the roof line and the pattern of windows looked very different from that of the old photo. So I don't think the old photo could have been taken at The Pleasance. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: December 14, 2011 |
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Reply 16. Frank Ferri Newhaven, Edinburgh |
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I had no replies on this topic for over two years. Now five replies have arrived within the last 24 hours. Thank you to Frank Ferri for sending the reply below. Frank and Terry (14 above) both reached the same conclusion independently, and sent me their suggestions at about the same time. Frank wrote: |
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Johnstone Terrace? "Is this not the old army quarters that used to be on Johnstone Terrace, opposite the Edinburgh Castle?" Frank Ferri, Newhaven: December 12, 2011 |
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Update Not Johnston Terrace I visited old army married quarters on the south side of Johnston Terrace, across the road from Castle Rock today, but the buildings that I found did not match those in the photo below. The Johnston Terrace buildings did not appear to have an arch. There were several gables, but their shapes were very different from those in the old photo above. The gables in the Johnston Terrace buildings faced in different directions and were all crow-stepped. So I don't think the old photo could have been taken at Johnston Terrace Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: December 14, 2011 |
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Reply 17. Thomas Harrison |
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Thank you to Thomas Harrison who wrote: |
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Portsburgh Square? "This photo is familiar. I believe that is of of Portsburgh Square in the West Port. My grandmother lived in the house on the ground floor on the right hand side of the arch. However I think it may have changed later to the one that I remember. The entrance that I remember, going down to lower tenement, was wider with stone pillars on either side. It had access to balcony flats, where my auntie Tishy (real name, Patricia) lived in the 1980s. I was born in 1936 so this photo must pre-date that. I hope this helps your contributors in identifying this wonderful find." Thomas Harrison: 12 March 2017 |