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A.1
Early History |
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Sailings
The Old Chain Pier, between Granton and Newhaven harbours was
formerly
known as Newhaven Chain Pier. It was used by steamers giving pleasure trips
in the Firth of Forth, but was destroyed in a storm in the 19th century.
The pier with its three spans extended 700 ft into the Firth of Forth.
It was built in 1821 and was used by steamers giving pleasure trips in the
Firth of Forth.
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Swimming
After the steamers had stopped using the pier, it became a centre for sea
bathing. Some railway advertisements referred to early morning trains
to Trinity for sea bathing.
Swimming competitions were held from the pier and the building at the end
was used a s a gymnasium [Gutrhrie Hutton: 'Old
Leith' published by Richard Stenlake]]
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Storm
The pier was badly damaged in a storm that lasted for four days,
beginning on 15 October 1898. When the storm abated only the central
support, bathing station at the end of the pier and the booking office were
left standing.
Damage was estimated at £500. The pier was never rebuilt. |
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Old Chain Bar
The Old Chain Pier booking office is still
standing. It is now the 'Old Chain Pier' bar, situated in Trinity
Crescent, overlooking the Firth of Forth. It has a restaurant
conservatory attached - but see below! |
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Acknowledgement: Thank you to Gutrhrie
Hutton for comments on the swimming competitions and the storm that damaged
the pier. These comments are taken from his book 'Old Leith' published
by Richard Stenlake, 1995. |
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A.2
Old Chain Pier Bar |
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The Pub
©
The original Booking Office, built in 1821, was converted into a pub
after the Second World War. The building is immediately behind the
large telegraph pole in the postcard above. The Firth of Forth is just
over the wall on the right of the picture
The Evening News reports that the pub
"... gained notoriety due to the eccentric behaviour of
former publican, Betty Moss, who wore bamboo framed spectacles and reputedly
called time by firing a starting pistol and brandishing a sword.
She
festooned the pub with mementoes, including shrunken heads, and it became
one of the most atmospheric in Scotland."
Edinburgh Evening News, 29 April 2004, p.5
More recently, a conservatory has been added to the pub. Both the original building and the conservatory overlook the Firth of
Forth. |
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A.3
Fire and
Restoration |
Fire - 2004
© I
was shocked to discover that the Old Chain Pier Bar was gutted by fire
yesterday morning. The fire is believed to have been started by an
electrical fault.
The roof of the old building (the original
ticket office, built for the pier in 1821) has been destroyed and the inside
of the building has been blackened with the loss of many old pictures.
The new conservatory beside the pub has
survived, but it is not clear yet what will be the fate of the original
building.
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Restoration - 2004
©
Work began on restoration of the Old Chain Pier bar during summer 2004.
The photograph above was taken on 9 July 2004. The pier, with a new
roof and newly refurbished interior re-opened in mid-November 2004. |
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A.4
Closed Again |
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September 2011
I was surprised to receive a
message from Edith Johnston, Edinburgh, on September 8, 2011, telling me that the Old
Chain Pier had closed again.
After reading Edith's message, I
drove past the Old Chain Pier again on September 9 and it looked a sorry
site. All the windows in the pub and its conservatory had been boarded
up, and there was a sign on the door advertising for a new Manager to run
the pub.
Peter Stubbs:
September 14, 2011
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A.5
To Open Again |
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May 2012
I'm pleased to say that The Old
Chain Pier appears to have found a new owner. I've seen activity both
outside and inside the building over the past month. It now has a new
coat of paint and smart signs and appears to be being refurbished inside, so
we may see it open again soon.
Peter Stubbs,
Edinburgh: May 1 2012
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Update
May 2012
I visited the Old Chain Pier
today to see how the refurbishment was progressing, and was told that they
hope to re-open next Monday, 7 May Wednesday or
Thursday 9 or 10 May, 2012
Peter Stubbs,
Edinburgh: May 3 2012
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B.
Recollections
Old Chain Pier Bar
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1.
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Mike Jarron
East Lothian
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Betty Moss
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2.
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Geoff Bonney
South Africa
+ Question
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Answers |
Betty Moss
The Bar
Clients
Argument
Return Visit
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3.
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John White
Edinburgh
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Betty Moss
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4.
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Donald Grant
Penicuik, Midlothian, Scotland
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Sunset over the Gasworks
O'Rourke Family
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5.
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Jack Craig
Silverknowes, Edinburgh
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Today
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6.
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Stephen Paterson-Fife
Singapore
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Betty Moss
O'Rourkes
'Lock-in'
'Working Girls'
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7.
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Rab Duncanson
Sunbury, Victoria, Australia
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Betty Moss
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8.
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Jim Gentle
Aberdeenshire
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1960s
Beer
Betty Moss
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9. |
David King
Trinity, Edinburgh |
History |
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10. |
Harry Hunter
Fife, Scotland |
Gallery over the Sea
Gents |
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11. |
Trish Lack
Haddington, East Lothian, Scotland |
Betty Moss |
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12. |
Allan Dodds
Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England |
Betty Moss |
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13. |
Douglas Bryce
Pilton, Edinburgh |
Jeff |
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14. |
Steve Aitken |
Barman
Betty Moss
Cellar |
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Recollections
1.
Mike Jarron
East Lothian |
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Betty Moss
Thank you to Mike Jarron, East
Lothian who wrote:
"There are a lot of
reminiscences about the Old Chain Pier Bar in Betty Moss's day. eg the time
she went storming into the gents' waving her cutlass to sort out a
disturbance."
Mike Jarron, East Lothian: January 30, 2007 |
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Recollections
2.
Geoff Bonney
South Africa |
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Thank you to Geoff Bonney,
originally from Hexham, Northumberland, and now living in South Africa, for
sending his memories of Betty Moss at the Old Chain Pier in the 1960s.
Geoff wrote:
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Betty Moss
"I have a vivid recollection of
Betty Moss from a visit in the 1960s. She was a little spelk of a
woman in a brightly coloured kimono, with a gold chain belt, those fancy
glasses, & ear-rings dangling onto her shoulders; curly gingery hair, so
sparse one could see through to her scalp, eye-brows just painted on with
eye-brow pencil, but what a character! |
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The Bar
"The bar was adorned with an incredible array of
memorabilia, from shrunken heads with a variety of weapons and tankards, to
loads of business cards and old-style humorous, seaside resort post-cards." |
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Clients
"I was with friends at a table facing the bar.
Next to me was an attractive, but rather tarty, young blonde; beside her a
dapper little man in a business suit. Two young fellows, evidently dockers,
came in & went to the bar. Not long after they’d been served the young
blonde got up, went over, and started talking to one, a handsome young
chap." |
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Argument
"Suddenly she hung a whacking roundhouse on his
jaw, at which, to our amazement, he burst into tears & ran around to the
back of the bar. She then picked up his pint & threw it at him. At this
Betty picked up a cutlass & chased the blonde out of the pub, locking the
door."
It was pouring with rain. Loud shouting
ensued and we could see a high-heeled shoe being brandished above the
frosted glass lower-half of the front window. The row subsided after a time
and I noticed the young woman’s hand-bag was still on the seat near me. I
pointed this out to the little man, still sitting there, and said I wondered
if anyone in the pub knew her and where she lived. He said ‘It’s alright. I
know her - I’m her husband!’ A while later Betty unlocked the door and we
were able to leave.
Driving back along the road we saw the soaking
wet young woman, lying in the porch of one of the houses opposite, with her
husband comforting her." |
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Return Visit?
"Sadly, I’ve never had the opportunity to visit
The Old Chain Pier pub again, but I’ll never forget it!
I wonder, does anyone know when Betty died and
at what age?" |
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Geoff Bonney, South Africa: January
11, 2008 |
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Question |
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1960s
David Wylie, Edinburgh, writes:
"I'm looking for some information
regarding the Old Chain Pier. I have been informed by several people
that in the late 1960's people were able to walk out over the pier where
there was a small bar at the end of the it.
However I have been unable to find any
information on this, are you able to help me?
David Wylie, Edinburgh: April 3, 2008
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Comment |
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1960s
From the photos and postcards that I have seen of the old pier, it
appears that little or nothing was left of it, following the storm in the
late 19th century. The Old Chain Pier Bar is still in business. It
still stands at the end of the old pier, but it is at the southern end of
the pier where the pier met the land.
However it is interesting that several people have mentioned walking out
over the pier in the late 1960s, so perhaps a short length of pier, close to
the land, did survive until then.
Please email me if you know anything about this.
Thank you. - Peter Stubbs,
April 3, 2008 |
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Answer 1 |
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Within three hours of adding the
question above to the web site, I received a reply from Francis Wilson.
Thank you Francis.
Francis wrote:
Balcony
"When Betty Moss owned the Old Chain Pier Bar in
the mid- '60s the bar was along the seaward wall. When you entered
from the west side there was a passageway on your left before reaching the
bar this led to the toilets and on to a rickety balcony overhanging the
Forth.
The wooden flooring were spars with gaps of an
inch between the spars. Thank goodness their was no £1 pound coinage
then.
The structure had
seen better day. It wasn't for the faint hearted. That's what
your reader must be alluding to.
This is my first reply to any website so hope
this is helpful."
Francis Wilson:
April 3, 2008
Thanks Francis. That's helpful. And your reply is confirmed
by message from Ian Taylor, below, which reached me a few hours later,
before I'd added your message to the web site. |
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Answer 2 |
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Ian Taylor, now living in South Glasgow, wrote:
Drinks
"I visited the Old Chain Pier in the mid-'60s,
as a quarter of a foursome. We ordered 2 pints of beer, a gin and
tonic and a white wine and soda.
I think the latter two drinks were a bit poncy
for Betty and we finished up with 2 pints of beer and 2 halves of lager!
In those days you could go through a door at the
back of the pub on to a sort of veranda over the water, in which many
glasses were visible, obviously chucked there in high spirits.
How Betty could keep up with this, I don't know.
Perhaps the poncy drinks weren't available because she had no suitable
glasses left!"
Ian Taylor, South Glasgow: April 4, 2008 |
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Answer 3 |
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Thank you to Frank Ferri who
replied
Pub Balcony
"The pub did have a little balcony/veranda at
back overlooking the sea, but it never ever had a bar there, only the main
interior bar - except possibly in the 1800s as a ferry point,
before the pier was blown away"
Frank Ferri, Newhaven: May 2, 2012 |
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Recollections
3.
John Wright
Edinburgh |
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Thank you to John
Wright for leaving this message
in the EdinPhoto Guest Book.
John wrote:
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Betty Moss
"I went to Betty Moss's once with my mate,
Norrie Bews. He was a character and I'm sure Betty's suited him right
down to the ground.
I had been pre-warned by him, but thankfully
there were no shenanigans that night. Norrie died at a young age and I
think of him often.
John Wright, Edinburgh: June 7, 2008 |
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Recollections
4.
Donald Grant
Penicuik, Midlothian, Scotland |
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Thank you to Donald
Grant for sending me his recollections of drinking in the Old
Chain Pier (below) and in
The Starbank.
Donald wrote: |
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Sunset over the Gasworks
"I found all the stories of 'The Chain' as we
called it, and it brought back some memories. I well remember the old
rickety balcony out the back and spent many summer evenings out there with
friends watching the sunset over the gasworks. Very picturesque !!
It was common to see seals swimming around in
the water as well as plenty rather unpleasant items floating around as a
result of the antiquated sewage system that was still being used for the
city." |
O'Rourke Family
"By the time we started drinking there (roughly
1970) Betty had gone, and the pub was owned by a family named O'Rourke who
we were led to believe were related to Jimmy O'Rourke who played for Hibs at
the time.
I remember that on one occasion they thought
they would try a new beer and got a supply of Watney's Red Barrel in.
A few of us gave it a try but decided it was pretty awful stuff.
I don't think it lasted more than a couple of
days before disappearing never to be seen again.
It was always a friendly pub when we were there
and was reasonably busy no matter what night of the week you were there,
which in our case was most nights!" |
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Donald Grant, Penicuik, Midlothian, Scotland |
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Recollections
5.
Jack Craig
Silverknowes, Edinburgh |
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Thank you to James
Craig who wrote:
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Today
"The Old Chain Pier Inn has changed quite a bit.
It has been enlarged to its commercial advantage, but maybe not to its
character.
It used to be tiny. I can remember
ordering a drink and a pie from the stout lady, who I think owned the place.
I got the drink, and the pie was slapped on the counter!
It was worth the visit."
Jack Craig, Silverknowes, Edinburgh: August 25,
2008 |
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Recollections
6.
Stephen Paterson-Fyfe
Singapore |
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Thank you to Stephen
Paterson-Fyfe for posting a message about the Old Chain Pier in
the EdinPhoto Guest Book.
Stephen wrote:
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Betty Moss
"I remember the Old Chain Pier very well.
I was taken once, as a kid, with my parents to say hello to Betty Moss. |
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O'Rourkes
"In the early 1970s, I used to go a lot to the
pub - in the days of the O'Rourkes?
Although Betty had gone there was still a lot of atmosphere, and the balcony
over the river." |
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'Lock-in'
"I remember one night a guy left, closed the
door behind him and took the handle out of the door (by mistake) leaving the
rest of us stuck in the pub for a few hours until a locksmith came and let
us all out." |
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'Working Girls'
"There were also various 'working girls' who
were locals. They were not so much girls as old pros, with hair in beehive
style and black lace dresses." |
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Stephen Paterson-Fyfe, Singapore (formerly
Edinburgh and Fife)
Message posted in EdinPhoto Guest Book, September 22, 2008 |
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Recollections
7.
Rab Duncanson
Sunbury, Victoria, Australia |
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Thank you to Rab
Duncanson, formerly of Redbraes Place and now living in Australia,
who wrote:
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Thursday Nights
"I used to drink at Betty's on Thursday nights
in the late-1960s with:
- John Wright
(3 above).
I worked beside him at Ferranti's and played fitbae
wi' him.
- Joe Exley
- Peter Johnsone
- Norrie Bews |
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Betty Moss
"Betty lived on the other side of the street.
A taxi used to pick her up, do a U-turn and out she would get.
She brandished a cutlass and a starting pistol
at closing time and sometimes an old football rackety thing that she would
wave round her head." |
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Beer
"Betty served possibly the worst draught
beer in Edinburgh or Leith. If you were a regular, you only drank bottled
beer. The rumour was that you couldn't get a pint if the tide was oot.
No matter what you asked for, draught, lager,
Extra, you got the same luke warm light beer." |
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Whisky
"I remember standing beside two young
American sailors one night who, after a mouthful of the ill-tasting brew,
decided to sample whisky instead.
They asked for ice in their whisky and Betty
replied "Ice? Dae ye think I'm running a Brothel? Ice indeed!"" |
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Rab Duncanson, Sunbury, Victoria, Australia:
January 14+15, 2009 |
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Recollections
8.
Jim Gentle
Aberdeenshire, Scotland |
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Thank you to Jim
Gentle, now living in Aberdeenshire,
who wrote:
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1960s
"The stories above relating to the Old Chain
Pier brought back old memories from the 1960's when we used to drink there.
I remember Betty Moss having a tape recorder
playing music and a black & white television on with the sound turned down.
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Beer
"The beer was pretty rubbish, but at my age what
did I know? We just liked the atmosphere.
Those were the days of pints of Heavy and pints
of Light." |
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Betty Moss
"One story goes that when a
customer complained that the Light was cloudy, Betty replied, "What do you
expect for 1s 3d, thunder and lightning?"
She was a real one-off. When we were much
younger she could be seen on warm summer days in a sort of bikini lounging
outside her pub - not the most attractive sight in the world." |
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Jim Gentle, Aberdeenshire, Scotland: November
21, 2009 |
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Recollections
9.
David King
Trinity, Edinburgh |
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Thank you to David
King,
Secretary and Webmaster of the Granton History Group, who wrote:
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Further Historical Information
"I was interested to see the latest
recollections of the Old Chain Pier bar. Although I live just across the
road, I got here after Betty Moss’s days!
Further historical information can be found on
these two pages of the Granton History Group web site:
-
Chain Pier
-
Chain Pier
Bar
David King, Trinity, Edinburgh: November
22, 2009 |
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The
page in the second link above also includes a small photo of Betty
Moss. |
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Recollections
10.
Harry Hunter
Kirkcaldy, Fife, Scotland |
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Thank you to Harry
Hunter who wrote:
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Gallery over the Sea
"There was a wee gallery/veranda out the back of
the bar which overhung the sea. You walked passed the Gents to reach it."
Gents
"The 'door' for the Gents was a curtain on a
spring. This became shorter with the passage of time and was often
less than was decent.
I remember at time Betty would barge in, waving
her sword and roust anyone out. This could be a bit disconcerting, I
can tell you"
Harry Hunter, Kirkcaldy, Fife, Scotland: December 14, 2009 |
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Recollections
11.
Trish Lack
Haddington, East Lothian, Scotland |
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Thank you to Trish for
writing about her experience of Betty Moss.
Trish wrote:
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Betty Moss
"Here is my experience of that fine? 'lady'.
My dad was a seaman. He was not a drinker,
but he knew of betty Moss, so she intrigued me. One night in the 1970s, I
talked my husband and another couple into going to the bar, 'just to see'?
So as you can imagine, we are all, or most of
us, at 20, gorgeous and slim. (Those were the days!) We girls then,
certainly were. So in we went, lambs to the slaughter!
As we entered, all was quiet. There was
only one other person in there, a man. Betty gave us a look, and I
nearly screamed, but we bravely went in, she asked us what we wanted.
A few orders later, we had our drinks.
The only thing was, the glasses were not clean.
I mean, I saw her shake other glasses out and wipe them with some God awful
looking 'cloth'!
My Gin and bitter lemon was in a glass that
looked like she had just picked it up from the street! I really didn't want
to upset her, but i really didn't want to drink from that glass!
So I didn't. We left!
We noticed the postcards on the walls from all
over the place. She certainly was some woman!
Trish Lack, Haddington, East Lothian, Scotland: January 29, 2010 |
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Recollections
12.
Allan Dodds
Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England |
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Thank you to Allan
Dodds who wrote:
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Betty Moss
"In the early 1960s,
female undergraduate students used to be introduced by their male partners
to Betty's as part of their extracurricular liberal arts education because
the Old Chain Pier Bar was a legend in its own time.
At closing time, if people weren't mindful of
the then strict licensing regulations, Betty would brandish her cutlass and
'skelp' any late drinkers on the 'erse' by way of encouraging them to leave
the premises in a timely fashion."
Allan Dodds, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England:
February 17, 2010 |
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Recollections
13.
Douglas Bryce
Pilton Edinburgh |
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Thank you to Douglas
Bryce who wrote:
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Jeff
"Betty had a Barman called Jeff. One
evening a pal ordered two pints and a Hamlet cigar. After pouring and
serving the beer Jeff said,
'We’ve no’ got any Hamlets.'
My pal asked, 'What
cigars have you got?''
Jeff
went to look again, and said 'I’ve only got
Will's Wiffs or Hamlets.'
To which my pal Tam replied 'Och,
well I'll just have a Hamlet then.'
"
Douglas Bryce, Pilton, Edinburgh: March 2, 2010 |
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Recollections
14.
Steve Aitken
Blackburn, Lancashire, England
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Thank you to Steve
Aitken who wrote:
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Barman
"I worked at the Old Chain Pier Bar as a
barman while I was a student in the 1970's. Betty Moss was gone but
was still talked about and vividly recollected! I used to have to walk on
the rickety wooden platform at the back (which hung over the water) to
collect the empties. If memory serves me correctly there were about two or
three smallish tables for sitting at and an old wooden rail to stop people
falling off."
Betty Moss
"Behind the bar there was a wooden shelf in a
sort of recess that had the cutlass proudly displayed, and also two large
wooden barrels. I was told when I started there that the barrels were
reputed to hold the remains of Betty's two husbands!
I never did get the chance to look inside, or
even to discover if she was married, let alone twice. It would be nice
to know the truth. No doubt the barrels went up in smoke along with
everything else in the fire in 2004."
Cellar
"The trap-door was also behind the bar and led
to an incredibly deep cellar which you had to climb down a long rung-ladder
to get to, about twenty feet or so. It always used to fascinate me
because it must have been well below the water line and yet I don't remember
it being damp.
I once forgot that the door was open and headed
across the bar to serve someone with an empty glass in my hand and
disappeared suddenly as I dropped down the hole. Fortunately my feet hit the
stepladder and my elbows stopped me going any further.
It was a great place to work for a while, and
was full of real characters. The current pub is very nice, but does not have
nearly as much atmosphere!"
Steve Aitken, Blackburn, Lancashire, England: April 9, 2011 |
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