Edinburgh's Transport - Gas-powered buses during World War 2

Gas-powered Buses

during WW2

Perhaps somebody else may be able to provide a photo or some memories of gas-powered buses, in response to the comments below from Gus Coutts of Duddingston, Edinburgh.

Gus wrote:

Question

"Do you know of any photos existing of gas-powered buses in Edinburgh during WW2? I am 65 and recall that they ran on what was then the No. 12 route from Portobello Town Hall to Surgeon’s Hall.

The buses were single deckers. The gas generator towed behind was 2-wheeled and resembled an oil drum on its end as far as I can recall.

I have asked several of my contemporaries about them but nobody can remember these buses."

Please e-mail me if you have any response to the comments by Gus, above.

- Peter Stubbs: May 24, 2006

Replies

Thank you for the replies, below, received from:

1. Walter Lyle Hume

3. Ron McBride

4. Alex Dow

5. Douglas Beath

6. Alex Dow

7. Douglas Beath

8. George Murray

9. Glen Barr

10. John Ogbourne

11. Laurence Wiles

12. Alan Fawcett Smith

Reply

Walter Lyle Hume

I don't yet have any photos of the gas-powered buses, but I received this interesting account of them from Walter Lyle Hume who remembers them from his days of training at the Leith Nautical College.

Walter says that he remembers them as "gas-bag buses".

Walter wrote:

SMT Buses

"We travelled to 'live ammunition' gunnery practise on the sand dunes about fifteen miles from our base at Leith, by SMT bus, complete with trailer!

This transpired to be a gas generator to run the engine. The gas storage bag, rather like a mini-barrage balloon was fitted on top where normally external luggage would have been stowed.

The trailer, very similar to a small fire pump had a mini-boiler, the furnace being stoked with anthracite coal to make the propellant gas. The solid fuel was stowed in the rear boot of the bus."

Walter Lyle Hume, Cowes, Isle of Wight, England. May 25, 2006

Reply

Ron McBride

Thank you to Gus McBride who wrote:

I remember the Buses

"I’m the same age as Gus. I was 66 a couple of weeks ago.

I have a memory of the gas powered buses he mentions, also on the number 12 route. The picture in my mind is of a bus and its trailer at a bus stop on Peffermill Road just before it would have turned left on to Duddingston Road.

I could only have been at most four years old at the time. I’ve also mentioned these buses a couple of times to contemporaries but no one has ever remembered them.

I’m glad to read now that they really did exist and weren’t just in my imagination."

Ron McBride: November 25, 2006

Reply

Alex Dow

Thank you to Alex Dow, Fife, Scotland, who wrote:

World War 1

"That bus had the bag filled with "town gas" at specific filling points; and did not have a trailer.

For a more permanent version of that means of propulsion, search for Trams in Neath, South Wales.

World War 2

"The WW2 gas-producer trailers did not require a bag on the bus."

Alex Dow, Fife, Scotland, October 27, 2006

Reply

Douglas Beath

Thank you to Douglas Beath, Burnie, Tasmania who wrote:

SMT Buses

"I remember producer gas trailers on some SMT buses during W.W.II. One in St Andrew Square (for long Edinburgh's apology for a "bus station") was giving out a very pungent whiff. Perhaps it was faulty or was being uncoupled."

Douglas Beath, Burnie, Tasmania: December 5, 2006

Reply

Douglas Beath

Thank you to Douglas Beath, who wrote again, a couple of days later:

"I have no recollection of Corporation buses with gas trailers.

However, Hunter, in his book on Edinburgh's transport (below) tells us about both Corporation buses and SMT buses with gas trailers."

Edinburgh's Transport

(DLG Hunter)

Corporation Buses

"The next 'headache' was the instruction from the Ministry of War Transport that a proportion of the buses must be adapted to run on producer-gas in order to save fuel.

A good deal of experimental work had been done in the south on petrol engines, but apart from some very old vehicles, Edinburgh now had only diesels and these were more difficult to deal with.

The standard two-wheeled trailer units were supplied by the Ministry, some of the latest standard single-deckers fitted with towing gear, and experiments went ahead.

Buses A71, A86 and A88 were among the nine adapted, and a fair measure of success achieved. About April 1943 the buses were run on the Barnton route, but the inherent difficulties of the system, lack of pulling-power, the use of trailers and the troubles with the gas plants themselves, made Edinburgh just as glad as every other operator in the country was to drop the scheme entirely as soon as the Ministry of War Transport allowed it.

The last 'gas' run was on 7 October 1944."

[page 226]

SMT Buses

"An early experiment was made in March 1940 with a gas-producer fixed to the back of an AEC bus, No.B3, while later a number of AEC and Leyland vehicles were adapted for the standard producer-gas trailers and run on the fairly flat North Berwick route."

[page 329]

Douglas Beath, Burnie, Tasmania: December 6+7, 2006

NOTE: D G Hunter's book, Edinburgh's Transport was published in 1964. This was later published in two volumes:

- Edinburgh's Transport: The Early Years (Publ 1992) and

- Edinburgh's Transport: The Corporation Years (Publ posthumously, 1999).

Reply

George Murray

Thank you to George Murray, Edinburgh who wrote:

Service 12

"I also remember the gas-powered buses on the service 12. This route suited trailer operation as the buses did not have to reverse at either terminus.

At Surgeon's Hall they turned from Buccleuch St via West Nicolson St, Nicolson St, Nicolson Sq (terminus) then off to Portobello by Marshall St and Bristo.

At the Porto end they came down Brighton Pl, turned into High St and terminated in front of the Town Hall. To return they completed a "U" turn often between trams on the Joppa and Levenhall services then right turn into Brighton Pl.

This kind of manoeuvre would cause chaos now but then there was very little other traffic.

Single Decker Daimlers

"The buses converted to gas power were the then standard single deckers Daimler COG5's with Gardiner Engines and Wilson pre-select gearboxes.

When at a stop picking up passengers, the driver would select 1st gear but hold on the brake which made the engine note appear to hustle as if to hurry the passengers to board and not waste time.

Burst Tyre

"I remember (aged about 4) returning home from a day on the beach by 12 bus (not gas powered) when we were approaching Duddingston X-roads there was a very loud bang.

This proved to be a rear tyre blow out and the vehicle settled down with a distinct lean towards the pavement. I recall a very long wait before a replacement bus was forthcoming to take us back to Newington.

George Murray, Edinburgh December 26, 2006

Reply

Glen Barr

Gas Buses in Britain

Thank you to Glen Barr for contacting me. Glen told me that he does not know of any photographs of gas buses in Edinburgh, but he sent me several photos of gas buses in London, Brighton, Bedford and Leeds.

Glen tells me that copyright on these is held by The Imperial War Museum, Getty Images, www.bedfordtoday.co.uk and Chris Hodge Trucks (StillTime.Net) and that the images are not licensed for use on a web site.

Glen also sent me details of British Pathe Films that include scenes with gas buses in London and Perth.

Glen Barr, May 30, 2008

Reply

10.

John Ogbourne

North Yorkshire

Thank you to John Ogbourne who wrote:

"My hairdresser, a sprightly octogenarian, has recollections of these buses operating between Northallerton and Leyburn, North Yorkshire, but we can find no further information. Can anyone else help?

He says that at one point (Harmby, steep hill) younger passengers were asked to get out and walk up a hill to assist with lack of power."

John Ogbourne: July 3, 2008

Reply

11.

Laurence Wiles

London

Thank you to Laurence Wiles who wrote:

"I can recall seeing gas powered buses about 1945. They towed a two-wheeled trailer. As far as I can remember, they put sawdust in the upright cylinder to generate the gas,

The buses I remember were London Transport, ST class double deckers, running out of Hornchurch Garage where my father worked as a bus conductor."

Laurence Wiles: July 5, 2008

Laurence added:

"When I saw these buses, I was 4 year old. My father, being a conductor at one of London Transport's garages, used to take me for rides on the buses and on one trip this ST class double decker pulled up with a trailer attached.

This is when my father explained it was producing gas by putting sawdust in the drum. I've just found out, it was anthracite and when heat was generated it sucked the gas through to the engine, but on steep hills they were not so good and only lasted 2 years, then reverted back to petrol.

So, in Scotland they would certainly be hard pressed to find flat ground. But who knows? We might be towing these trailers behind our cars shortly if Gordon keeps putting the price of petrol up."

Laurence Wiles: July 13, 2008

Reply

12.

Alan Fawcett Smith

Thank you to Alan Fawcett Smith who wrote:

Yorkshire

"I remember, quite distinctly, that I travelled on a gas powered bus with my grandfather during WWII. This was in Harrogate, then West Yorkshire. I was born there in March 1940, and must have been about 3 or 4 years old.

It has always stuck in my memory. I recall the gas envelope on the top. I have also asked several people about whether they remember them, but the answer has always been negative.

Having found your information, I can now be happy that it was not a figment of my imagination."

Alan Fawcett Smith, Crawley, West Sussex, England: September 1, 2008