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Edinburgh's Transport
Gas-powered Buses
during WW2 |
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Perhaps somebody else may be
able to provide a photo or some memories of gas-powered buses, in response
to the comments below from Gus Coutts of Duddingston, Edinburgh.
Gus wrote: |
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Question
"Do
you know of any photos existing of gas-powered buses in Edinburgh during
WW2? I am 65 and recall that they ran on what was then the No. 12
route from Portobello Town Hall to Surgeon’s Hall.
The
buses were single deckers. The gas generator towed behind was
2-wheeled and resembled an oil drum on its end as far as I can recall.
I
have asked several of my contemporaries about them but nobody can remember
these buses." |
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Reply to
Gus?
Please
e-mail me
if you have any response to the comments by Gus, above.
Thank you.
- Peter Stubbs: May 24, 2006
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Reply
1.
Walter Lyle Hume
Cowes, Isle of Wight, England
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I don't yet have any photos of
the gas-powered buses, but I received this interesting account of them
from Walter Lyle Hume who remembers them from his days of training at the
Leith Nautical College.
Walter says that he remembers
them as "gas-bag buses".
Walter wrote: |
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SMT Buses
"We travelled to 'live ammunition'
gunnery practise on the sand dunes about fifteen miles from our base
at Leith, by SMT bus, complete with trailer!
This transpired to be a gas
generator to run the engine. The gas storage bag, rather like
a mini-barrage balloon was fitted on top where normally external
luggage would have been stowed.
The trailer, very similar to a small
fire pump had a mini-boiler, the furnace being stoked with
anthracite coal to make the propellant gas. The solid fuel was
stowed in the rear boot of the bus." |
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Walter Lyle Hume, Cowes, Isle of Wight, England.
May 25, 2006 |
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Reply
2.
Peter Stubbs
Edinburgh |
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Photo
- World War 1
I have not yet found any
photographs of gas powered buses in Edinburgh during WW2, but
I have found a photograph of one during WW1.
© |
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Peter Stubbs: June 7, 2006 |
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Reply
3.
Ron McBride |
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Thank you to Gus McBride who
wrote: |
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I
remember the Buses
"I’m
the same age as Gus. I was 66 a couple of weeks
ago.
I have a memory of the gas powered buses he mentions, also on the number 12
route. The picture in my mind is of a bus and its trailer at a bus stop on
Peffermill
Road just before it would have turned left on to
Duddingston
Road.
I
could only have been at most four years old at the time. I’ve
also mentioned these buses a couple of times to
contemporaries but no one has ever remembered them.
I’m
glad to read now that they really did exist and weren’t just in my imagination."
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Ron McBride: November 25, 2006 |
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Reply
4.
Alex Dow
Fife, Scotland |
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Thank you to Alex Dow, Fife,
Scotland, who
wrote: |
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World
War 1
©
"That
bus had the bag filled with "town gas" at specific filling points; and did not
have a trailer.
For a
more permanent version of that means of propulsion, search for Trams in Neath,
South Wales.
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World War 2
"The
WW2 gas-producer trailers did not require a bag on the bus."
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Alex Dow, Fife, Scotland, October 27, 2006
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Reply
5.
Douglas Beath
Burnie, Tasmania, Australia |
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Thank you to Douglas Beath,
Burnie, Tasmania who
wrote: |
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SMT Buses
"I remember producer gas trailers on some SMT buses during W.W.II. One
in St Andrew Square (for long Edinburgh's apology for a "bus station")
was giving out a very pungent whiff. Perhaps it was faulty or was
being uncoupled." |
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Douglas Beath, Burnie, Tasmania, Australia: December 5, 2006
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Reply
6.
Alex Dow
Fife, Scotland |
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Thank you to Alex Dow who
wrote again giving:
- some
technical background information on gas-powered vehicles.
- his memories of gas trailers at
Central Garage, Annandale
Street.
Alex Dow, Fife, Scotland, December 5+6, 2006 |
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Reply
7.
Douglas Beath
Burnie, Tasmania, Australia |
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Thank you to Douglas Beath, who
wrote again, a couple of days later:
"I have no recollection of Corporation buses with gas trailers.
However, Hunter, in his book on Edinburgh's transport
(below) tells us about both Corporation buses and SMT buses with gas
trailers." |
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Edinburgh's Transport
(DLG
Hunter) |
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Corporation Buses
"The next 'headache' was the
instruction from the Ministry of War Transport that a proportion of
the buses must be adapted to run on producer-gas in order to save
fuel.
A good deal of experimental
work had been done in the south on petrol engines, but apart from
some very old vehicles, Edinburgh now had only diesels and these
were more difficult to deal with.
The standard two-wheeled
trailer units were supplied by the Ministry, some of the latest
standard single-deckers fitted with towing gear, and experiments
went ahead.
Buses A71, A86 and A88 were
among the nine adapted, and a fair measure of success achieved.
About April 1943 the buses were run on the Barnton route, but the
inherent difficulties of the system, lack of pulling-power, the use
of trailers and the troubles with the gas plants themselves, made
Edinburgh just as glad as every other operator in the country was to
drop the scheme entirely as soon as the Ministry of War Transport
allowed it.
The last 'gas' run was on
7 October 1944."
[page 226] |
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SMT
Buses
"An early experiment was made
in March 1940 with a gas-producer fixed to the back of an AEC bus,
No.B3, while later a number of AEC and Leyland vehicles were adapted
for the standard producer-gas trailers and run on the fairly flat
North Berwick route."
[page 329] |
Douglas Beath, Burnie, Tasmania: December 6+7, 2006
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NOTE: D G Hunter's book, Edinburgh's Transport was
published in 1964. This was later published in two volumes:
- Edinburgh's Transport: The Early Years (Publ 1992)
and
- Edinburgh's Transport: The Corporation Years
(Publ posthumously, 1999).
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Reply
8.
George Murray
Edinburgh |
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Thank you to George Murray,
Edinburgh who wrote:
Service 12
"I also remember the gas-powered buses on the service 12. This route
suited trailer operation as the buses did not have to reverse at either
terminus.
At
Surgeon's Hall they turned from Buccleuch St via West Nicolson St,
Nicolson St, Nicolson Sq (terminus) then off to Portobello by Marshall
St and Bristo.
At the Porto end they came down Brighton Pl, turned into High St and
terminated in front of the Town Hall. To return they completed a "U" turn
often between trams on the Joppa and Levenhall services then right turn
into Brighton Pl.
This kind of manoeuvre would cause chaos now but then there was very
little other traffic.
Single Decker Daimlers
"The buses converted to gas power were the then standard single deckers
Daimler COG5's with Gardiner Engines and Wilson pre-select gearboxes.
When at a stop picking up passengers, the driver would select 1st gear but
hold on the brake which made the engine note appear to hustle as if to
hurry the passengers to board and not waste time.
Burst Tyre
"I remember (aged about 4) returning home from a day on the beach by 12
bus (not gas powered) when we were approaching Duddingston X-roads there
was a very loud bang.
This proved to be a rear tyre blow out and the vehicle settled down with a
distinct lean towards the pavement. I recall a very long wait before a
replacement bus was forthcoming to take us back to Newington.
George Murray, Edinburgh December 26, 2006
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Reply
9.
Glen Barr |
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Gas Buses in Britain
Thank you to Glen Barr for contacting me. Glen told me that he does
not know of any photographs of gas buses in Edinburgh, but he sent me
several photos of gas buses in London, Brighton,
Bedford and Leeds.
Glen tells me that
copyright on these is held by The Imperial War Museum, Getty Images, www.bedfordtoday.co.uk and Chris Hodge Trucks (StillTime.Net) and
that the images are not licensed for use on a web site.
Glen also sent me details of British Pathe Films
that include scenes with gas buses in London and Perth.
Glen Barr, May 30, 2008 |
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Reply
10.
John Ogbourne |
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North Yorkshire
Thank you to John Ogbourne who
wrote:
"My hairdresser, a sprightly octogenarian,
has recollections of these buses operating between Northallerton and
Leyburn, North Yorkshire, but we can find no further information.
Can anyone else help?
He says that at one point
(Harmby, steep hill) younger passengers were asked to get out and walk up
a hill to assist with lack of power."
John Ogbourne: July 3, 2008 |
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Reply
11.
Laurence Wiles |
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Thank you to Laurence Wiles who
wrote:
London
"I can recall seeing gas powered buses about
1945. They towed a two-wheeled trailer. As far as I can
remember, they put sawdust in the upright cylinder to generate the gas,
The buses I remember were London
Transport, ST class double deckers, running out of Hornchurch Garage where
my father worked as a bus conductor."
Laurence Wiles: July 5, 2008 |
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Laurence added:
4-Year-Old
"When I saw these buses, I was 4 year old.
My father, being a conductor at one of
London Transport's garages, used to take me
for rides on the buses and on one trip this ST class double decker pulled
up with a trailer attached.
This
is when my father explained it was producing gas by putting sawdust in the
drum. I've just found out, it was anthracite and when heat was
generated it sucked the gas through to the engine, but on steep hills they
were not so good and only lasted 2 years, then reverted back to petrol.
So,
in Scotland they would certainly be hard pressed to find flat ground.
But who knows? We might be towing these trailers behind our cars
shortly if Gordon keeps putting the price of petrol up."
Laurence Wiles: July 13, 2008 |
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Reply
12.
Alan Fawcett Smith
Crawley, West Sussex, England |
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Thank you to Alan Fawcett
Smith who
wrote:
Yorkshire
"I remember, quite distinctly, that I
travelled on a gas powered bus with my grandfather during WWII. This
was in Harrogate, then West Yorkshire. I was born there in March 1940, and
must have been about 3 or 4 years old.
It has always stuck in my memory. I
recall the gas envelope on the top. I have also asked several people about
whether they remember them, but the answer has always been negative.
Having found your information, I can now be
happy that it was not a figment of my imagination."
Alan Fawcett Smith, Crawley, West Sussex, England: September 1, 2008 |
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Reply
13.
John Simpson
Calgary, Alberta, Canada |
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Thank you to John SImpson who
wrote:
Kirkcaldy
"I recall seeing similar gas powered buses in
Kirkcaldy, Fife. The 2-wheel trailer had a gas producer boiler but
no gas bag. The gas was a weak substitute fuel but as long as the route
did not have steep hills the performance was acceptable.
The smell was another matter!"
John Simpson, Calgary, Alberta, Canada:
August 4, 2009 |
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Reply
14.
George Derrick
Canada |
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Thank you to George Derrick who
wrote:
Pickford Removal Vans
"I don't recall buses equipped with
gas-producing trailers but I clearly remember the PICKFORD removal vans
using that apparatus during the war.
I have contacted PICKFORDS head office
specifically seeking confirmation and photographs etc, but with no luck."
George Derrick, Canada: August 7,
2009 |
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Reply
15.
Tony Sanders |
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It has been a while since I
received any comments on this topic, but now Tony Sanders has sent a
contribution.
Tony wrote
North Devon Bus
"It wasn't in Scotland, but
as a boy in North Devon during WWII, I remember gas powered 57-seat double
decker buses towing two-wheeled trailers on which were large soft wobbly
bags containing the gas.
Power was obviously modest because, on a
summer Sunday afternoon on the way back to Bideford from Westward Ho!
beach with a full load of passengers, the bus stopped at the start of one
hill (not particularly steep).
We all had to alight, walk up the hill, and
climb back into the bus for the remainder of the three-mile journey.
Tony Sanders: March 16, 2010 |
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Reply
16.
Murray Jackson
Canada |
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Thank you to Murray Jackson
for telling me about this two minute film clip on gas-powered buses and
other vehicles in London. Please click on the link below then on the
'click to play' link to view the film clip.
You may have to watch a little
advertising before the interesting part begins!
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Murray wrote:
Pathé Film
"Here is a link to a short British Pathé
video newsreel
film about London buses and other vehicles with gas trailers."
Murray Jackson, Canada: November
14, 2010 |
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Reply
17.
George Orr
Australia |
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Thank you to George Orr who
wrote:
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No Gas Operated Buses Seen in Edinburgh
"I
was born in Edinburgh
1929 and attended Danial Stewart College. then became an Apprentice
Joiner with Robert Laurie Belford Road.
During my time in
Edinburgh I never saw Ggas-operated buses, only electric tram cars which
travelled all over Edinburgh. They were noisy but serviceable."
George Orr, Australia, formewrly Featherstone Crescent,
Edinburgh: March 27, 2011 |
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