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SMT Sales & Service
and a discussion about the |
On the corner of Grindlay Street (LEFT) and Lothian Road (RIGHT)
© Scotsman Publications Ltd. Click here for web site details. Licensed by Scran, Photo 47576: Scran 000-000-043 -784
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SMT Sales & Service |
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Dealership
This photo shows the SMT Sales & Service dealership on the corner of
Lothian Road and Grindlay Street. The photo was published in The
Scotsman, or perhaps in Edinburgh Evening News, on June 21, ** Please see 'Reply 12' below for the reason why this date has been changed. |
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German Open-top Car Please click on this link to read a discussion about whether or not this was the showroom where the German Open Top car used by Goring or Hitler during World War 2 was on display in the late-1940s. |
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Cars parked in front of the Showroom Is that a Vauxhall Wyvern with the whitewall tyres in front of the dealership? And what is the large car behind it? Is it an Armstrong Siddeley? Please continue to scroll down this page to read a discussion about the cars parked in front of this showroom: |
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Replies |
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1. |
Frank Ferri |
- American Car |
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2. |
Frank Ferri |
- Chevrolet |
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3. |
Frank Ferri |
- Austin? |
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4. |
Brian Alexander |
- SMT Depot - Austin Sheerline - Vauxhall Velox - MG |
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5. |
Frank Ferri |
- Chev 10 - Vauxhall Velox - Debate |
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6. |
Gus Coutts |
- Vauxhalls |
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7. |
Peter Stubbs |
- Vauxhall or Chevrolet |
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8. |
Brian Alexander |
- SMT Depot - Austin Sheerline - Vauxhall Velox - MG |
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9. |
- Vauxhall Cresta and Austin Sheerline - The Third Car? |
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10. |
Gus Coutts |
- Vauxhall Crestas |
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11. |
Brian Alexander |
- Vauxhall Velox |
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12. |
Brian Alexander |
- Vauxhall Velox or Cresta - Date of the Photo - Date on Scran |
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13. |
Wendy |
Answer - Vauxhall Velox 1955 |
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Reply 1. Frank Ferri Newhaven, Edinburgh |
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Thank you to Frank Ferri for replying to my question about the cars parked in front of the SMT showroom in this photo. Please click on this thumbnail image above to enlarge it and get a better view of the cars in the road. Frank wrote: |
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American Car "The car with the whitewall tyres in this 1950s picture is not a Vauxhall Wyvern. It looks more like a late-'40s or early-'50s American Oldsmobile or a Chevrolet. There were quite a few American cars in the city at that time due to a lot of American servicemen being based at Kirknewton at the time.During the early days of the depressing post-war period, with Britain having ongoing rationing, I think it would be unlikely that any of our cars would have had the luxury of whitewall tires. That was pretty much an America image. You will note the rear wheel of the car in picture is half- covered by the mudguard, not a feature of the Vauxhall." Frank Ferri, Newhaven, Edinburgh: November 6, 2011 |
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Reply 2. Frank Ferri Newhaven, Edinburgh |
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Chevrolet Thank you to Frank Ferri Ferri for writing again with a photo of a 1950 Chevrolet Sedan Deluxe car that seems a good match for the one parked outside the SMT showroom in Edinburgh in 1952. Frank found the photo on the Fast Cool Cars web site |
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Reply 3. Frank Ferri Newhaven, Edinburgh |
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I asked Frank Ferri if he recognised the model of car behind the Chevrolet in this photo, and might it be an Armstrong Siddeley. (Please click on this thumbnail image to enlarge it.) Frank replied: |
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Austin? "It's difficult to tell what model this car might be. It might be an Austin. Armstrong Siddeleys didn't have a flat radiator, and there is no obvious sign of their bonnet mascot, the Sphinx." Frank Ferri, Newhaven, Edinburgh: November 6, 2011 |
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Reply 4. Brian Alexander Prestonfield, Edinburgh |
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Brian Alexander also wrote about the cars in this photo. Brian agrees with Frank Ferri's comments about the large Austin in this photo, but he reached a different conclusion about the photo in front of it. Brian wrote: |
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SMT Depot "That's a very interesting photograph of SMT Sales Depot. I don't remember it, but I was only 5 weeks old when the photo was published!" Austin Sheerline "The large car on the left in this photo is almost certainly an Austen Sheerline (often referred to as a Princess) manufactured between 1947 and 1954. Vauxhall Velox "The car in front is a Vauxhall Velox, manufactured between 1951 and 1957. The Velox did have half covered rear wheel arches. The chrome strip along it's length is another identifying feature along with white-wall tyres." MG? "The Sports car at the rear of the Sheerline is, I think, an MG. I can't tell which model, but probably pre-war." Brian Alexander, Prestonfield, Edinburgh: November 6, 2011 |
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5. Frank Ferri Newhaven, Edinburgh |
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The debate continues as to whether the car in front of the SMT showrooms in this photo is a Vauxhall or a Chevrolet. Frank added: |
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Chev - 10 "Sorry guys we'll have to agree to disagree. The car in the picture is not (in my view) a Vauxhall Velox: - It has no wing mirrors - The chrome strip on the side is longer than on the Velox. - The grill is a different shape. I see no sign of the chrome fluting running along on the bonnet, a Vauxhall feature - The rear wheel is covered by about a third. It was not on the Velox. |
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Vauxhall Velox Vauxhall in my recall was the first UK company to try and emulate the American streamline shape in that time. I had a Vauxhall Victor De-Lux with a good emulated American shape, but did not match the American style, because it was too short in length. |
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Debate Anyway its been fun remembering and a good debate for the website. |
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Frank Ferri, Newhaven, Edinburgh: November 7, 2011 |
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Debate Yes, Frank. It has been a good debate. I've learnt a few things, so far. I expect there might be more comments still to arrive on this topic. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: November 7, 2011 |
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Recollections 6. Gus Coutts Duddingston, Edinburgh |
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Thank you to Gus Coutts, who sent me the original photo of the SMT showroom in Lothian Road, for joining the debate about the cars parked in the road in front of the showroom. Gus wrote: |
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Vauxhalls "The car under discussion may more likely be a Vauxhall Cresta. This was the top of the 6-cylinder range with white-walled tyres. It was really a Velox with all the bells and whistles added. Gus Coutts, Duddingston, Edinburgh: November 7, 2011 |
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Recollections 7. Peter Stubbs Edinburgh |
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Vauxhall or Chevrolet? The debate continues. However, I've now sent an email to the Vauxhall Cresta Club, asking their opinion on the 'Vauxhall v. Chevrolet' debate above. If I receive a reply, I'll add it below. Peter Stubbs: Edinburgh, November 7, 2011 |
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Update I've now received a reply from the Vauxhall Cresta Club. See Reply 13. Peter Stubbs: Edinburgh, November 10, 2011 |
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Reply 8. Brian Alexander Prestonfield, Edinburgh |
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Thank you to Brian Alexander for sending me a photograph*** of a 1952/53 Vauxhall Velox with whitewall tyres. It appears to me to be a good match for the car in this photo: On the photo sent by Brian, there is a small chrome panel at the bottom of the rear door where it forms the front of the rear wing. This looks quite distinctive and can also be seen on the photo at the top of this page. This leads me to the conclusion that the car parked outside the SMT showroom in Lothian Road is likely to be a Vauxhall Velox (or possibly a Vauxhall Cresta). Brian wrote: |
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Vauxhall Velox "I do love a good healthy debate, particularly concerning cars. I have attached a photo of a 1952/53 Velox for comparison. Frank Ferri disagrees on: - the length of the chrome side strip. - the depth of rear wheel arch covering the wheel. - the grill being the wrong shape. - the absence of a chrome bonnet flute. However looking at the attached photo*** of a Vauxhall Velox, I disagree. The car in the photo looks similar to the car parked in front of the SMT showroom in all the respects above. I do agree with his point regarding the wing mirrors, I don't know if they were a standard fitting or an option and if so, were fitted at the factory or by the dealer. As SMT were Vauxhall Dealers, the car may be waiting to have them fitted." Brian Alexander, Prestonfield, Edinburgh: November 8, 2011 |
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*** Question: I've sent an email to Brian Alexander to discover the source of this photo so that I can consider whether or not there would be any copyright issues to consider before I added a copy of the photo to the EdinPhoto web site.
Reply: Thank you to Brian for replying to this question. |
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Reply 9. Harry Craigmount, Edinburgh |
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Thank you Harry at Craigmount who wrote: |
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Vauxhall Cresta and Austin Sheerline "I'm pretty sure the car outside the SMT showroom in the picture is a Vauxhall Cresta, followed by an Austin Sheerline." The Third Car? "But what is the third in line? There appears to be a badge in the middle of the radiator, but I suppose it could be a club badge like an AA badge, not part of the original car." Brian Alexander, Prestonfield, Edinburgh: November 8, 2011 |
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Recollections 10. Gus Coutts Duddingston, Edinburgh |
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Thank you to Gus Coutts who wrote |
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Vauxhalls "I Googled 'Vauxhall Cresta, and got these three images ***. Gus Coutts, Duddingston, Edinburgh: November 7, 2011 |
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***
All three of these Google images seemed to me to
be a good match for the first of the cars parked outside the SMT showroom
(if we disregard the fact that two of them were painted two-tone and all
three had wing mirrors). I've not added these images to the EdinPhoto web site for copyright reasons. |
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Reply 11. Brian Alexander Prestonfield, Edinburgh |
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Thank you to Brian Alexander for letting me know that the photo mentioned in 'Reply 8' (above) came from the Wikipedia web site. |
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Vauxhall Velox Wikipedia have taken this photo of the Vauxhall Velox from their Wikimedia Commons repository. The photographer, Charles01, has released it into the public domain, so I am now able to reproduce it here:
© This photo has been taken from the Wikimedia Commons repository , and is in the public domain. Please click on the image above to go to the Wikipedia page to enlarge this photo and read more about it.. The photographer describes the car as being c.1953. He took the photo in 2008. |
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Acknowledgement: Brian Alexander, Prestonfield, Edinburgh: November 10, 2011 |
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Reply 12. Brian Alexander Prestonfield, Edinburgh |
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Brian Alexander added: |
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Vauxhall Velox or Cresta "The car outside SMT may be a later Velox. I believe the Cresta had a different colour of paint around the chrome side strip to visually distinguish it from the same year's Velox. The car outside SMT doesn't have this." Date of the Photo "This photo of the the SMT garage originated on the SCRAN web site. I have experienced problems with SCRAN regarding the dates of some photos. So I would not guarantee that the photograph taken in Lothian Road / Grindlay Street is dated correctly. I have tried to find out when SMT moved to Earl Grey Street, without success. There is little in the Lothian Road photograph to identify the exact year. The point is, the Vauxhall Cresta did not appear until 1954. So, we either have a photograph wrongly dated, as I suspect, or a Vauxhall Velox car! (or both! - Peter Stubbs) We cannot have a 1952 Vauxhall Cresta! A bit long winded reply I know, but let the debate continue. Brian Alexander, Prestonfield, Edinburgh: November 10, 2011 |
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Date on Scran Brian was right to be suspicious of the date given by SCRAN on their web site for this photo. I've also found some incorrect dates on the SCRAN web site. In my experience, the month and year have usually been correct but the year has not been sometimes been wrong! I telephoned The Scotsman
today to discuss this photo with them and discovered that this photo was,
in fact, taken on June 21, 1956, and was
published in The Scotsman newspaper the following morning.
Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: November 10, 2011 |
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Update I've now had chance to look at the microfilm records for The Scotsman newspaper of June 21, 1956. I see that this photo was, in fact one of two photos of SMT properties that appeared in that paper. The other was the frontage of SMT's garage and repair depot in East Fountainbridge, but unfortunately I've not found a copy of that one on the SCRAN web site. The reason for the photos appearing in the paper was the resignation of SMT's Chairman the previous day, his position being filled by RN Scott who had connections with Atholl Development, a company that had been discussing the possible sale and lease back of SMT Sales & Services properties. Peter Stubbs, Edinburgh: November 12, 2011 |
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Reply 13 Wendy on behalf of Vauxhall Cresta Club |
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I sent an email to the Vauxhall Cresta Club three days ago asking for their opinion on whether the car in the photo was a Vauxhall Victor or a Chevrolet. After discovering today that the year of the photo in question was 1956, rather than 1952, I contacted the club again to let them know. I received a reply from the club almost immediately. I think we can regard this as the definitive reply to the question Wendy wrote: |
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Answer Vauxhall Velox - 1955 "The car outside the SMT showroom is a Vauxhall Velox. We have been debating the year of the car, and we really think it is a 1955 Velox. So, given the revised date of the photo, that would make it correct." Wendy, on behalf of Vauxhall Cresta Club: November 10, 2011 |
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Reply 14 Bruce Johnstone Haddington, East Lothian, Scotland |
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Bruce Johnstone wrote: |
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SMT Showrooms "I’ve been reading the debate on the cars in the photo outside the former SMT showroom in Lothian Road. It reminded me of the other SMT premises. SMT also had garage and showroom premises in East Fountainbridge and at the west end of Haymarket Terrace. Both have been replaced by student flats and a large office." Bruce Johnstone, Haddington, East Lothian, Scotland: November 18, 2011 |